i wouldn't say so.. CS will always take much more skill than any other FPS game, especially COD games. all though MW2 does look pretty good and it has the awp(l96 sniper rifle) :D!!
They better release a promod or even PAM within a month of the game's release. Else MW2 will end up being a total flop like WAW. But that game was terribad to begin with so....
You guys are missing the point. MW2 will not fail, infact it will probably be their best selling game to date. The game is geared toward pub gamers and specifically console gamers. PC gamers are an after thought in todays game market. Also IW does not get much out of catering a game to competitive gamers. That is why mods are used.
WAW failed because the game was not made well, and it had a ton of issues. MW2 looks great, and seems to have the same gameplay as cod4 only with new weapons, and enhanced customization.
IW's job is to sell more games and the tweaks they have made are to do that not appease us here in the competitive arena.
This comment was edited at 09/17/2009 4:11 PM
Thanks for banning me with no reason or explanation...
#12, I think you miss the point of games in general. Games are made to bring people together to a virtual format for socialization and for entetainment. Only a small niche of gamers are competitive (I being in that niche). Games evolve into being competitive, not made to be competitive.
Look at WOW, CS, Quake, etc.. These games or mods were made to bring an entertainment to people, they evolved over time to be seen as competitive games. The same as COD did and as MW2 will have to. MW2 will be made for the masses, and people will have to mod/ alter it to be closer to a balanced competitive game.
Thanks for banning me with no reason or explanation...
#13, again, you're smarter, "knowing what others think"
I'm not missing any point, you're missing the point, which says "you're not the only one with iQ higher than 30 around here, dumba$$"
Games are made to BE ENTERTAINMENT. Entertainment is like flavour - different to everybody. While some like 360 mid-air headshots, others like sensitivity 0.1 headshots with mp44 over the whole map.
Therefore, people, who like HIGH LEVEL of gameplay, will call MW2 pub_flick a FAILURE, and EITHER quit it, or MODIFY it TO be HiGhLeVeLz()rD hoooooooooooookay
Competitiveness is the part of the game, it's the part of human nature, idiot. It's just the level of it and the skill gap between levels that makes the game last more or less, be loved or loathed.
dvour, people like you are why esports and gaming never changes. People that live in the past and are unwilling to embrace change as games come out. Unfortunately most of the competitive community is the same way, staying with the same worn out games like CS, Quake, etc...
It takes skill to adapt to new gamestyles and game changes. If you have ever noticed mods, especially competitive ones, make the game dumbed down. It removes things like weather effects, loose materials, material physics, modified damage, remove sway, etc... For "pro" gamers to be so "pro" they sure like things dumbed down. Examples are CS, CSS, COD, etc...
QUOTE:dvour, people like you are why esports and gaming never changes.
oh thank god, if only I was the reason
QUOTE:People that live in the past and are unwilling to embrace change as games come out.
yeaaahhhh....I dont see that as a problem
oldschool > all
QUOTE:Unfortunately most of the competitive community is the same way, staying with the same worn out games like CS, Quake, etc...
That's one lovely thing
QUOTE:It takes skill to adapt to new gamestyles and game changes.
Actually, no, it doesn't.
It's very simple. New game - nobody knows how to play, therefore, noobs like you have easier time adapting to the game. Old game - everybody knows how to play, all wallbangspots, all tricknades, etc., and noobs like you have impossible time adapting, you smash the keyboard with your head, and...eventually you switch to games, that are easy to play for you - NEW games.
QUOTE:If you have ever noticed mods, especially competitive ones, make the game dumbed down.
Yep. So that all the crap, that is mostly eyecandy, is removed, and only the pure competitiveness, the soul of it, is left. Sorry mate, promods are for real men only, they dont need eyecandy, all they need is their genepool put right there in competition. Go watch animal planet, and go figure.
QUOTE:For "pro" gamers to be so "pro" they sure like things dumbed down.
LOL. Cod1 was played without almost any modification. PAM changes were minor.
cod4 is a different deal overall. And I bet you don't get it either...Tell me, what's your nick in game ?
-=[101st.]=-Cpt.Winters-=[L]=- ??? LOL.
QUOTE:I mean COD4 only sold 13 million copies of the game, clearly it was a failure...
Are you a fvking idiot ? Can't you read what I write ? LOL.
QUOTE:Therefore, people, who like HIGH LEVEL of gameplay, will call MW2 pub_flick a FAILURE
You dont understand what I'm saying there ? Vacuum between neck and hair ?
I gotta say, dvour is absolutely right. besides, probably the biggest point of pro-mods is to remove gameplay effects (like weather effects) that make the game favor one side or the other randomly. Crappy gameplay effects will only succeed in making luck or chance a huge factor in a competitive setting where such things shouldn't be tolerated, or encouraging exploitation and cheating like poorly designed smoke or fog.
I don't take credit outta quake and ut, but CS is still the best game out there. COD4 won't ever take its crown, however I do think it's a cool game (for entertaining of course).
Anyone who thinks this is going to shut down CS is out of their minds. No team based game has come close to requiring the skill of CS, only DM games require more skill, and no team based games ever will.
And I heard there will be no dedicated servers for MW2? If so, say goodbye to any form of real competitive play.
no offense, but VCOD > CS 1.6? no way. the fact that it's about an old war game already ruins it's chances of beating CS.
the reason why cod4 > cod5 was because it's about modern warfare. it's pretty obvious people prefer to play modern games because of the guns and the maps. vcod was a good game, but definitely not better than CS.
World War 2 will go down in history as one of 2-3 most heroic and disgusting wars in the history of mankind.
To have lived in the same century as World War 2, and to have relatives, who have been fighting/alive during it's time, is the same, as to have lived in the times of Achilles, Napoleons or whatever.
Even the all famous AK-47 has derived from technologies, made by germans, and if you watch all documentary videos about Stg43, ak-47, and how amricans and russians stole all the technologies after the war, you will understand, that if it weren't for WW2, there would be no NASA, there would probalby be no computers today (americans funding their scientists during the war), we would be living in 1930's today, with minor advancements.
But the most inspiring thing about WW2 is heroics, not only those of allies, but those of germans as well, who had to hold the line no matter what, because they were told to. These soldiers had such pride, honor and heroism, upcoming generations will never know, or even taste, because nobody will care to watch some old-ass documentary movies about some "dumb" world war 2.
The reason cod4 > cod5, is not only because it's about modernism. There are many reasons including: - it was released too early after cod4... - the developers where Treyarch - i'm not bashing them, but they haven't made a single competitive-like map in the game, or anything towards that.. - singleplayer campaign had it's moments, but still, there weren't nearly as much time/money dedicated to it, as to the same in cod4 - same thing with cod1 - it's SP campaign was more 'epic', than cod:uo - most people, the casuals, have no idea about world war 2, and for them to get into this ww2 scene, is the same thing, as to go to school every day, and actually try learning something in history or any lessons, for that matter. what i'm saying here - CS has been played from the start by people, who don't like sophistication of games...what they like to do, is just come into the server, press 2 buttons to buy, run and gun
And Cod vs Cs is the same thing as USA vs EUROPE, BASKETBALL vs FOOTBALL. Some people prefer this a little bit more, some people prefer THAT a little bit more, and in the end, they blow things out of proportions, and make 2 camps, who "worship" some extremity to the left or to the right.
So no, the fact that it's an old war game, doesn't ruin the games chances in beating CS in the essence of the idea itself. There's this fact - CS has been released in 1999, while COD - 2003. Had both games been released the same exact month/day, I think we would have different proportions of communities/tournaments. Simple as that.
QUOTE: The reason cod4 > cod5, is not only because it's about modernism.
true, the other factors do also play a big role. but modern warfare is more appealing to people today. whether it be a person completely new to FPS games or a person whos been playing his entire life. they have a much greater chance of playing the modern game because a) ww2 games are getting boring and old, too many of them now and b) because your average casual 360 gamer doesnt know a shit about ww2 games and prefers to play with lasers and aliens (halo)
QUOTE:what i'm saying here - CS has been played from the start by people, who don't like sophistication of games...what they like to do, is just come into the server, press 2 buttons to buy, run and gun
exactly why so many people loved the game. it had GREAT gameplay and it was simple, the maps were simple. you already understand that so no point in going into further detail with this.
QUOTE:And Cod vs Cs is the same thing as USA vs EUROPE, BASKETBALL vs FOOTBALL. Some people prefer this a little bit more, some people prefer THAT a little bit more, and in the end, they blow things out of proportions, and make 2 camps, who "worship" some extremity to the left or to the right.
also true, but in terms of success CS was clearly more successful than vcod, cod2, or any cod game other than cod4 and mw2 (depending how u look at it) in terms of competitive gaming, CS has been the most successful followed by vcod. mainly because CS you just start it up and play, there was no need for any mods or anything. i mean they both are two amazing games, but like you said people have different tastes. the only reason i said that is because ive played CS for a long time and have enjoyed every minute of it, probably like you have with vcod, which is what gives u a strong emotion for the game.
QUOTE:So no, the fact that it's an old war game, doesn't ruin the games chances in beating CS in the essence of the idea itself. There's this fact - CS has been released in 1999, while COD - 2003. Had both games been released the same exact month/day, I think we would have different proportions of communities/tournaments. Simple as that.
yeah but when vcod was released, most people still stuck with CS. if they were both released the same time, then we would have waited a bit to see which people really prefer and which would have died quicker than the other.
in the end, 5,10,15 years from now we'll look back and see how much video games have really changed since the era of CS and Vcod/2. im guessing it'll be shit (tahnks mw2)
To be brutally honest, it doesn't really matter which was the best game in the first years of the millenium, counting 2000-2003, either it was quake, cs, or the new boy in the show, cod.
I don't remember who said it, but I bet it was some poet, and he was talking about his poetry - whenever you release your creations to public - they instantly become theirs, not yours.
And that is what I think matters the most in this case. People, who made cod1 popular, the old IW team, like Grant Collier and others, who originally came from Medal of Honor...They've made this game, they've started out on PC, with soul and sound, which today's IW crew - 402 and other money hungry idiots, have no clue of.
In other words, these people are feeding on us, blatently throwing stuff into our faces (which will eventually destroy this community), while we are still pre-ordering the game.
Cod4 had an amazing SP campaign, but G.Collier was still with them, now he's gone, and god knows how things will turn out. I'd laugh into IW's faces, if they eventually brake down and gave us dedi servers and mods, and I'd laugh even harder, if they stay cocky, controlling things till the game dies.
And I also do think that this lack of dedicated servers is the same thing as discussed in the audio interview with 402, originally from bash and slash. The "pc version = 2 weeks later than xbox" scandal has probably had it's weight, and that is the main reason, why we don't have dedicated servers. They screwed up, and didnt have enough time to edit the xbox version to such extent as dedicated servers, testing them and other stuff.
As for the future, this is the best time for some old game to release a new game with a good engine. Counter stirke - hello 2010, quake5 or Battlefield Bad Company 2 - that looks promising, love their graphics/animation other stuff. It's hard to imagine playing this game competitively, but if we get corenered with poor decisions from other popular/well balanced games, who knows.
QUOTE:And that is what I think matters the most in this case. People, who made cod1 popular, the old IW team, like Grant Collier and others, who originally came from Medal of Honor...They've made this game, they've started out on PC, with soul and sound, which today's IW crew - 402 and other money hungry idiots, have no clue of.
same thing goes for CS. Leet goose and the other guy made the successful version of the game, beta all the way up 1.5. now they're gone and valve released Source which turned out horrible. they also added stupid updates to make CS worse.
meh. i have a really strong feeling other dev companies will become like IW. our only hope is for the community to release their own game, which will DEFINITELY happen. CSP, if successful, will be the future.
The problem with community games is the increased possibility of cheat integration into the games themselves. You never know who is really trustworthy.
thats what i never really like about COD4 #44. you could throw a grenade over a building and kill the entire team. completely pointless and encourages spawn camping
i think the fact that cs has been around for 10 years speaks for itself...and the community is still larger than most others. oh, and console gamers are so far in the dark and they don't even know it. kids that go to my old school that i talk to at work tell me the game deserves a 15/10. say it was strictly a console game...it's still not the best console shooter ever...it's just another shooter really, nothing revolutionary. games like goldeneye and perfect dark revolutionized console shooters. cod almost has the "madden effect" now. they come out with a new game almost every year, add a few new details, couple things here and there, but for the most part they bring nothing completely new to the table. perks, guns, and maps don't count for sht when it comes to new stuff. but that's all it takes in today's market because people are so blind to what great games are.
Cheggit
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mw2 multiplayer
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/60467
new perks and kill streaks:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/arti..
videos:
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/highris..
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/capture..
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/capture..
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/capture..
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/capture..
seems like iw is finally shutting down cs this time.
but double attachments as first perk.. really iw?
keep dreaming, doors that way.
just saw they have death streaks too now.. wow.. this game will be fun for a week
and if you think CS > all CODS, then you obviously haven't played vcod
quake1/2/3 > ut > vcod > et > cs > cod2 > cod4 > w/e
WAW failed because the game was not made well, and it had a ton of issues. MW2 looks great, and seems to have the same gameplay as cod4 only with new weapons, and enhanced customization.
IW's job is to sell more games and the tweaks they have made are to do that not appease us here in the competitive arena.
Quake will always take much more skill than CS.
As for MW2... Two problems persist. Weapons seem as bad as in CoD4 and maps look horrible. Personally I'm more interested in the single player.
your whole post was a waste, because we already know that
and we are "competitive" gamers, or at least high skill, therefore, pub games fail in our eyes.
Look at WOW, CS, Quake, etc.. These games or mods were made to bring an entertainment to people, they evolved over time to be seen as competitive games. The same as COD did and as MW2 will have to. MW2 will be made for the masses, and people will have to mod/ alter it to be closer to a balanced competitive game.
I'm not missing any point, you're missing the point, which says "you're not the only one with iQ higher than 30 around here, dumba$$"
Games are made to BE ENTERTAINMENT. Entertainment is like flavour - different to everybody. While some like 360 mid-air headshots, others like sensitivity 0.1 headshots with mp44 over the whole map.
Therefore, people, who like HIGH LEVEL of gameplay, will call MW2 pub_flick a FAILURE, and EITHER quit it, or MODIFY it TO be HiGhLeVeLz()rD hoooooooooooookay
Competitiveness is the part of the game, it's the part of human nature, idiot. It's just the level of it and the skill gap between levels that makes the game last more or less, be loved or loathed.
To be honest - gtfo einstein wannabe
It takes skill to adapt to new gamestyles and game changes. If you have ever noticed mods, especially competitive ones, make the game dumbed down. It removes things like weather effects, loose materials, material physics, modified damage, remove sway, etc... For "pro" gamers to be so "pro" they sure like things dumbed down. Examples are CS, CSS, COD, etc...
I mean COD4 only sold 13 million copies of the game, clearly it was a failure... http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58537
World at War was a bad game compared to many who played previous COD's but it sold 11 million
http://www.totalvideogames.com/Call-of-Du..
Clearly a failure too...
oh thank god, if only I was the reason
yeaaahhhh....I dont see that as a problem
oldschool > all
That's one lovely thing
Actually, no, it doesn't.
It's very simple.
New game - nobody knows how to play, therefore, noobs like you have easier time adapting to the game.
Old game - everybody knows how to play, all wallbangspots, all tricknades, etc., and noobs like you have impossible time adapting, you smash the keyboard with your head, and...eventually you switch to games, that are easy to play for you - NEW games.
Yep. So that all the crap, that is mostly eyecandy, is removed, and only the pure competitiveness, the soul of it, is left. Sorry mate, promods are for real men only, they dont need eyecandy, all they need is their genepool put right there in competition. Go watch animal planet, and go figure.
LOL. Cod1 was played without almost any modification. PAM changes were minor.
cod4 is a different deal overall. And I bet you don't get it either...Tell me, what's your nick in game ?
-=[101st.]=-Cpt.Winters-=[L]=- ??? LOL.
Are you a fvking idiot ? Can't you read what I write ? LOL.
You dont understand what I'm saying there ? Vacuum between neck and hair ?
And I heard there will be no dedicated servers for MW2? If so, say goodbye to any form of real competitive play.
BLOOOOOOD#@$@$@
the reason why cod4 > cod5 was because it's about modern warfare. it's pretty obvious people prefer to play modern games because of the guns and the maps. vcod was a good game, but definitely not better than CS.
To have lived in the same century as World War 2, and to have relatives, who have been fighting/alive during it's time, is the same, as to have lived in the times of Achilles, Napoleons or whatever.
Even the all famous AK-47 has derived from technologies, made by germans, and if you watch all documentary videos about Stg43, ak-47, and how amricans and russians stole all the technologies after the war, you will understand, that if it weren't for WW2, there would be no NASA, there would probalby be no computers today (americans funding their scientists during the war), we would be living in 1930's today, with minor advancements.
But the most inspiring thing about WW2 is heroics, not only those of allies, but those of germans as well, who had to hold the line no matter what, because they were told to. These soldiers had such pride, honor and heroism, upcoming generations will never know, or even taste, because nobody will care to watch some old-ass documentary movies about some "dumb" world war 2.
The reason cod4 > cod5, is not only because it's about modernism.
There are many reasons including:
- it was released too early after cod4...
- the developers where Treyarch - i'm not bashing them, but they haven't made a single competitive-like map in the game, or anything towards that..
- singleplayer campaign had it's moments, but still, there weren't nearly as much time/money dedicated to it, as to the same in cod4 - same thing with cod1 - it's SP campaign was more 'epic', than cod:uo
- most people, the casuals, have no idea about world war 2, and for them to get into this ww2 scene, is the same thing, as to go to school every day, and actually try learning something in history or any lessons, for that matter. what i'm saying here - CS has been played from the start by people, who don't like sophistication of games...what they like to do, is just come into the server, press 2 buttons to buy, run and gun
And Cod vs Cs is the same thing as USA vs EUROPE, BASKETBALL vs FOOTBALL. Some people prefer this a little bit more, some people prefer THAT a little bit more, and in the end, they blow things out of proportions, and make 2 camps, who "worship" some extremity to the left or to the right.
So no, the fact that it's an old war game, doesn't ruin the games chances in beating CS in the essence of the idea itself. There's this fact - CS has been released in 1999, while COD - 2003.
Had both games been released the same exact month/day, I think we would have different proportions of communities/tournaments. Simple as that.
true, the other factors do also play a big role. but modern warfare is more appealing to people today. whether it be a person completely new to FPS games or a person whos been playing his entire life. they have a much greater chance of playing the modern game because a) ww2 games are getting boring and old, too many of them now and b) because your average casual 360 gamer doesnt know a shit about ww2 games and prefers to play with lasers and aliens (halo)
exactly why so many people loved the game. it had GREAT gameplay and it was simple, the maps were simple. you already understand that so no point in going into further detail with this.
also true, but in terms of success CS was clearly more successful than vcod, cod2, or any cod game other than cod4 and mw2 (depending how u look at it) in terms of competitive gaming, CS has been the most successful followed by vcod. mainly because CS you just start it up and play, there was no need for any mods or anything. i mean they both are two amazing games, but like you said people have different tastes. the only reason i said that is because ive played CS for a long time and have enjoyed every minute of it, probably like you have with vcod, which is what gives u a strong emotion for the game.
yeah but when vcod was released, most people still stuck with CS.
if they were both released the same time, then we would have waited a bit to see which people really prefer and which would have died quicker than the other.
in the end, 5,10,15 years from now we'll look back and see how much video games have really changed since the era of CS and Vcod/2. im guessing it'll be shit (tahnks mw2)
I don't remember who said it, but I bet it was some poet, and he was talking about his poetry - whenever you release your creations to public - they instantly become theirs, not yours.
And that is what I think matters the most in this case. People, who made cod1 popular, the old IW team, like Grant Collier and others, who originally came from Medal of Honor...They've made this game, they've started out on PC, with soul and sound, which today's IW crew - 402 and other money hungry idiots, have no clue of.
In other words, these people are feeding on us, blatently throwing stuff into our faces (which will eventually destroy this community), while we are still pre-ordering the game.
Cod4 had an amazing SP campaign, but G.Collier was still with them, now he's gone, and god knows how things will turn out. I'd laugh into IW's faces, if they eventually brake down and gave us dedi servers and mods, and I'd laugh even harder, if they stay cocky, controlling things till the game dies.
And I also do think that this lack of dedicated servers is the same thing as discussed in the audio interview with 402, originally from bash and slash. The "pc version = 2 weeks later than xbox" scandal has probably had it's weight, and that is the main reason, why we don't have dedicated servers. They screwed up, and didnt have enough time to edit the xbox version to such extent as dedicated servers, testing them and other stuff.
As for the future, this is the best time for some old game to release a new game with a good engine. Counter stirke - hello 2010, quake5 or Battlefield Bad Company 2 - that looks promising, love their graphics/animation other stuff. It's hard to imagine playing this game competitively, but if we get corenered with poor decisions from other popular/well balanced games, who knows.
same thing goes for CS. Leet goose and the other guy made the successful version of the game, beta all the way up 1.5. now they're gone and valve released Source which turned out horrible. they also added stupid updates to make CS worse.
meh. i have a really strong feeling other dev companies will become like IW. our only hope is for the community to release their own game, which will DEFINITELY happen. CSP, if successful, will be the future.
I want to play where ever it is that you are... cheaters are rare there? Sounds nice.
mw2 pc mp stream. high quality
http://tastro.org/rapidshare/Call-Of-Duty..
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