The CS 1.6 match of the week, Complexity vs. EG will be streamed Pwnage.tv [www.Pwnage.tv] tonight at 11:00pm EDT! Additionally, the broadcast will feature guest commentators Jeff "Smeagol" Dickinson, Ron "Rambo" Kim, and Bruce "Bbiz" Bisland.
Tune in before the match at 10:30pm EDT to hear interviews with coL's newest member, Scott "Evolution" Cavallero, and EG's recent foreign addition, Tomi "Lurppis" Kovanen.
Don't get me wrong, I think Drew is a fantastic player and leader, but I am entitled to my own opinions you know... And some would say I have some experience to know what I'm talking about :)
Rambo no offense but your experience rests primarily in the golden age of CS. CS has changed a lot since you were at the top both in-game and out. I think you saw a glimpse of that when you first came back with coL after the CGS collapse. Let Drew do his own thing because people playing differently is what makes the game interesting and fun. If everybody had the same exact play style as you Rambo then I'm pretty sure next to nothing would get accomplished other than fights over who AUG that was. People have to be different and have their own roles and ways to go about fufilling them. Citeing what you would have been doing differently is one thing, critiqueing him on what you see him doing when you are completely ignorant to what he has in at a larger and more complex scale is another thing. Critiqueing a strat caller is just about the worst thing you can do to someone because you almost always underestimate the big picture they are trying to paint for their team. You arn't a mind reader and you don't know what he is trying to accomplish so I think its fair if we just give him his space and let him play the way he wants. Citeing what you would have done differently is irrelevant because what you would have done is based upon your earlier experiences with CS which have since then greatly changed. It would be like tr1p coming back to critique Neo... tr1p was the clutch player of his time, Neo is the clutch player of his... but of two completely different time periods. It can't be done. The game has changed too much. And afterall, nobody likes backseat driving.
By the way Rambo you should make another CS guide. Except this time not hold back because it was severely obvious that you wern't saying all you knew. It was just far too elementary. And plus it would be great to see how your opinions and advice may have changed since your time period of playing CS. If you arn't coming back to CS then I don't see the harm in just putting it all out there. You'd have nothing to lose anyways and a lot to gain? Its a shame pros don't release guides of EVERYTHING they know when they retire. If every pro did that CS would be so much more advanced than I could even imagine by now.
#31 is a perfect example of a CS player from the ime period of CS we are in now. An apathetic piece of crap that has no buisiness here on GotFrag if he isn't an E-sports enthusist.
I remember one of the first demos I watched was pinnacle vs 3d , I was wondering who this "kim" was, he was just too good and also noticed a "miller",but I had no clue about team3d n all the competitive scene. Rambo is a legend,if some1 can cristize some1's games,its him.
#33 there are plenty of more 'qualified' players. But that dosn't make it right for even players like tr1p too because its just plain mornic. These top players were at the top of their time but arn't now. Nobody can critisize anybody unless they are from the same era of CS as the other(with the exception of strat callers because they need their space and we can't read their minds so let them do what they need to do and leave them alone). Rambo is not qualified whatsoever to critique Drew. Thats just the most idiotic and egotistical bullcrap I've ever heard. Rambo isn't a mindreader and Rambo isn't even from the same era of CS so lets just leave it at that. The game has changed far too much for anything Drew does in-game as a strat caller to be within his jurisidiction of judging the way someone else does things. Thank God there are people like #34 that can see that and that I'm not the only one.
#35 shut ur face,the game changed but not that much ,cs always changes but the basics are the same,everytime you have a team that makes new strats ,changes the way things are done,faster/slower whatever people implemented in their game.Your talking like we changed game n were playing battlefield,come on now. And how can you talk about cs you dont even play it,playing with clear walls isnt exaclty cs.
#36 you just have no idea. Mabye you should pay a bit more attention to whats actually going on in-game. CS is practically turning into COD. Its either 'work off picks' and play like passive to a ridiculous extent or do complete outright rushes. Whereas in the old days of CS there was a far bigger span of variety there. Its like all of the invervaling variety in terms of tempo was replaced with just a bunch of different ways to do the same two things(rushes and setups/working picks). Because thats the only two damn things people do now. Back in the old days of Rambo's time it was about outexecuting and not nearly as much about playing responsive and working off picks. Take a look at tr1p's old strats. Look at the immense amount of boosting into sites, slow takes, and split takes at almost every tempo he executed. Espcially on a map like mill. He had a strat for every situation at every tempo. Now a great deal of his strats would become invalid because people only play at the 'work off picks' tempo or the 'coordinated rush' tempo. Hell the last time I've ever even seen a split strat done successfully hasn't been for monthes yet you wouldn't see a match that wouldn't do that almost every other round regardless of the map back in Rambo's time.
And let's not forget crouch hopping is also a huge influence as well on the tempos of the game these days. :)
Long story short CS has evolved. Mainly for the good except there are two main tempos that you must abide by now which didn't exist before which force you to play responsive and proactive regardless of how good your origina strats may be if they are off tempo. Back then the tempo range was a lot bigger and a lot more could be succesfully done without the random peek factor and other crucial problems that revolve around that issue. Just look at how f0rest revolutionized holding an angle. People call it the f0rest movement(a double meaning in that). Meaning he was the first to utilize constant movement of peeks and re peeking to hold multiple angles based on different times proactively adjusted to the situation rather than one good angle the entire time. When the Hell do you ever see f0rest stay still these days? And when did you ever even see Rambo move when he held A on inferno for instance. Its just too different. Theres less tempo but more variety in execution as more knowledge came into light of new flashes, spams and so on. Whereas it was the exact opposite in the younger days of CS. Eventually the cycle will become full circle and it will revert back. Not sure how long until that happens but I expect it to happen relatively soon with the rise of a certain team I've been keeping my eye on.
Anyways hope I was able to clear that up for you, #36. :)
#38 ok the way you follow cs and know whats happening,dont you think rambo does the same,you dont think is aware of all that already?He knows how its played now+ he has alot of experience and knowledge about the game so I think he is qualified more than any other person in NA cs to critize or to give his opinion.
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You guys are completely retarted. READ: In his "own" opinion, he believes that drew peeking those couple rounds costs coL the match vs EG.... fkin kids on gotfrag i swear
I agree with most of what fodder has said, though I didn't read everthing. You noobs don't know shit. Even from the time that the old coL spent in CGS cs changed so much to where they were one of the top teams in the world before, and when they returned they were a joke internationally.
I have to be done with this thread because people on here are just writing things even though they didn't watch the match or listen to the commentary last night.
None of us were afraid to be critical of the two teams that played, and I dont think anyone said that either team was on the level that complexity used to be before the CGS. Frankly, nobody said the american cs scene is the same as it was before the CGS. What the scene is right now is obviously different, and it WILL NEVER GO BACK TO WHAT IT USED TO BE. Anyone who doesn't realize this is living in the past. Nobody (that I know) is saying that it WILL go back to what it used to be. Those of you who think CS has changed so drastically, I beg to differ. No more than it did between 1.5 and 1.6 or other similar changes we have seen over the span of the game.
I ask you guys, if you're going to criticize the commentary, thats fine with me. At least listen to it before you start raging about how we don't know what we are talking about. If you have legit criticism, or you disagree with an opinion we express that is MORE than fine, but at least BACK IT UP.
I actually enjoyed the shoutcast and also you guys mixing up EG and coL a few times but you said dont slaughter you if you did mix them so no harm done. Also I have now learned golf has taken over quite a few players but who does'nt love golf? Keep up the good work guys.
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coL vs EG commentators!
Tune in before the match at 10:30pm EDT to hear interviews with coL's newest member, Scott "Evolution" Cavallero, and EG's recent foreign addition, Tomi "Lurppis" Kovanen.
Also, get lessons from CS expert Rambo here:
[http://eseamarket.com]
And follow Smeagol's CS musings on Twitter here:
[http://twitter.com/thesmeagol]
-_-
fvcking rolled by rambo
Rambo is a legend,if some1 can cristize some1's games,its him.
And how can you talk about cs you dont even play it,playing with clear walls isnt exaclty cs.
And let's not forget crouch hopping is also a huge influence as well on the tempos of the game these days. :)
Long story short CS has evolved. Mainly for the good except there are two main tempos that you must abide by now which didn't exist before which force you to play responsive and proactive regardless of how good your origina strats may be if they are off tempo. Back then the tempo range was a lot bigger and a lot more could be succesfully done without the random peek factor and other crucial problems that revolve around that issue. Just look at how f0rest revolutionized holding an angle. People call it the f0rest movement(a double meaning in that). Meaning he was the first to utilize constant movement of peeks and re peeking to hold multiple angles based on different times proactively adjusted to the situation rather than one good angle the entire time. When the Hell do you ever see f0rest stay still these days? And when did you ever even see Rambo move when he held A on inferno for instance. Its just too different. Theres less tempo but more variety in execution as more knowledge came into light of new flashes, spams and so on. Whereas it was the exact opposite in the younger days of CS. Eventually the cycle will become full circle and it will revert back. Not sure how long until that happens but I expect it to happen relatively soon with the rise of a certain team I've been keeping my eye on.
Anyways hope I was able to clear that up for you, #36. :)
WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT WALL OF TEXT
then minus frag :D
None of us were afraid to be critical of the two teams that played, and I dont think anyone said that either team was on the level that complexity used to be before the CGS. Frankly, nobody said the american cs scene is the same as it was before the CGS. What the scene is right now is obviously different, and it WILL NEVER GO BACK TO WHAT IT USED TO BE. Anyone who doesn't realize this is living in the past. Nobody (that I know) is saying that it WILL go back to what it used to be. Those of you who think CS has changed so drastically, I beg to differ. No more than it did between 1.5 and 1.6 or other similar changes we have seen over the span of the game.
I ask you guys, if you're going to criticize the commentary, thats fine with me. At least listen to it before you start raging about how we don't know what we are talking about. If you have legit criticism, or you disagree with an opinion we express that is MORE than fine, but at least BACK IT UP.
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