I wish EG would have put more effort into actually winning instead of just practicing strats this entire playoffs. Seeing as how they've had a total of 4 scrims the past two weeks according to lurppis (they lost both esea scrims to a pug of icy, a2z, yayoo, plexxico, teknikal), they need the practice. WCG is more important than the ESEA lan playoffs, so I guess they made the right decision. Congrats to DINC though. They played extremely well led by flowsick and adrenaline.
On a side note, how can you cheat and still play for a top 5 team? It seems like everyone just ignores the fact that sfx used to cheat. The guy plays so dumb and he's talking trash to frod like he can ever be half the player frod is. Another dumb asian trying to be black.
If EG can do well at WCG, I'm sure all is forgiven for tanking the ESEA playoffs.
You guys do know that is how jasper is at LAN. He talks so much crap and is good at getting in peoples heads. He just pisses people off. You would know if you ever played with him at LAN or against him. They beat EG. And yes sfx used to cheat and he admitted it, and so did n0thing. Shut up you little EG fanboys. A win is a win. Upsets happen all the time in counter-strike, get over it.
Before I went to work yesterday, I was hanging in the vent party for a little bit. Low and behold, Warden comes in to answer questions.... well.... not really....
Everyone in chat started calling him fat, and even though people asked legit questions, Warden just talked crap and focused on people calling him a fat tub of lard.
Anyways, the one question he did answer was what he thought about teams like Excello and DINC. He pretty much said they sucked and don't deserve to be in ESEA Invite.
So there you go Warden; you can now eat your own words. And that is with pun intended.
of course #12 because eg is a weak team, and no other team in the us can ever beat them unless its by luck.. theres no way dinc didnt put in a lot of time practicing or anything.
EG is trash, period...I'm glad they lost and I hope they fail at WCG. N0thing deserves a better team and Lurppis shouldn've tried to find a better euro team, he's entirely too good to be on EG.
EG's goal is to win the WCG Global Finals, while DINC's goal is to win the ESEA playoffs. Enough said. Everyone slammed complexity for placing 4th (behind dynamic) at WCG US Nationals and now they won the ESEA playoffs. Counter-Strike is random. If a top team has a bad day and a lower-tier team has a good day, anything can happen especially in NA where scrims for the top teams are rare.
I'm sure the majority of you still think of complexity and evil geniuses as the top two American teams.
#25 counter strikes not random. How can a team like Fnatic hold that #1 spot if CS is random? coL had a different roster at WCG, they're obviously stronger with this current roster. EG however is a fluke team, they get to go out play international events etc. What do they bring home with them to America? A loss to a team like DINC? No disrespect to dinc, I'm saying however that teams like EG shouldn't slip up to a team like DINC, if they were as good as people like to boast.
#27 If you knew anything about Counter-Strike or how it's played, you would know NineSpot brings way more to the team than just frags..they can compete internationally, they just haven't had the chance to do so in a while.
EG's problems go beyond Warden, as everyone keeps saying. They have a lot of trouble playing dynamically. They're very standard in how they approach set ups and plays(minus n0thing who tends to be a huge spaz). Even though that's improved with the addition of Lurrpis, it still remains a fact that they don't change it up enough sometimes. Storm is an amazing player but is consistently redundant. Warden has been continuously under performing, and Lurrpis, while a great caller, isn't a strong overall player.
So what needs to happen?
One of the issues is that EG will never cut a player like Warden because of how long Warden has stuck to fRoD and Storm. Another is the fact that Lurrpis isn't American, and so for games like WCG they're already down a leg(even though they took one of the two spots up for grabs).
It's somewhat unfortunate I guess. I've speculated on what would help them in the long run, but it seems like fRoD and n0thing(and perhaps Storm) would be better suited somewhere else, as they are both easily in the top players of the US. While I could certainly see n0thing weighing out his options, I doubt fRoD would be so bold.
EG was saving their strats for WCG. They are using ESEA finals as a warmup for 4 of them. When tubby gets in, it'll be game over for all those smelly swedes, germans, koreans, pollacks and chinamen.
Counter-Strike is random enough that a simple roster change (from fnatic, SK and MYM.swe) with a weeks practice can take on the best teams with a few months practice. All it takes is a key frag here and there or a good flank and the game changes. fnatic has arguably the top two players in the world who are capable of getting those key frags. Even then, they still lost to SK (a team that changed out 2 of their key players). That is how random counter-strike is.
EG had a different roster at WCG as well, with tubby substituting for lurppis.
What happened against DINC was just bad timing and different motivations. They lost to DINC on pug maps like mill and d2, while raping them on team maps like nuke and train. Stuff happens on pug maps, especially d2.
As someone said on the hltv, it's nice to see a lower-tier team step up and compete with the best. Congrats to complexity and very well played DINC.
I agree with #30. They are too standard in their setups and strats, something complexity is not. They needed n0thing to step up and play "outside of the box", but he had an off tournament.
Lastly, Irukandji played amazing this tournament. Plenty of key frags. Props to him.
sfx can talk crap all he wants, at the end of the day hes a fat a$$ asian b!tch with no life and no girls would ever touch his small ass weenky (which he hasnt seen in years im sure)
#33 oh my god, its the end of the world. They lost 1 grand final and still placed second. They also beat SK again just recently. Your argument would be valid if some how SK was dominating the world but they aren't. No team is invincible, every team is capable of losing. Its consistency that makes a good team. For example, alternate, they did great very early this year, but they haven't even come close to replicating it. Why? Because they aren't on the level of a team like fnatic.
Or, it's because fnatic gets to scrim all the good teams in Europe to stay in shape. When was the last time any of the top american teams found a good scrim? Randomness affects teams who are rusty a great deal more.
fnatic has been a victim of CS randomness as well. They barely made it out of groups at the last international tournament, losing to teams who aren't even in the top 5.
#37 what kind of excuse is that?All the European teams get to practice each other yet only a handful are good. But still fnatic is number one for a reason. They have a stronger roster with no weak links, a strong strat caller in carn, a lot of international lan experience, and also the right mentality in the game to keep focused and win key rounds. EG is the only American team this year who has any international lans under their belt. Thats the best practice a team can have, yet they still lost badly. Doesn't matter if fnatic barely wins group. Point is they win group and make it the grand finals. Consistently. Teams like WMF don't have good teams to practice against either. But they're still considered a top team. Your excuses for EG are running dry.
Only a handful are good? Fnatic, SK, mtw, Vitrolic, Alternate, Mousesports, H2K, MyM, and virtus.pro are all teams off the top of my head who are good enough for Fnatic to go up against without developing bad habits. Who can EG play in NA? They know complexity by heart and Turmoil from what I hear is pretty inactive in the scrimming scene. They've managed to get 4 scrims in the past 2 weeks, two of them pugs of lower-tier invite teams. They can't play other invite teams because we have none who are good enough for EG. Fnatic has a wide variety of teams to play against, and thus they are fresher. EG came into this tournament rusty and they are using it as warm up for the WCG. That was my point, which you clearly missed.
It seems in your last response that you're comparing fnatic to EG, which is a complete joke. So let me get back to the point.
A team like fnatic holds that number 1 spot because they are talented, have the top 2 players in the world without question, and come into each tournament well prepared. EG's best player is n0thing who had a bad tournament. After that, besides frod, the talent they have isn't that much better than the rest of NA. They have a mediocre strat caller compared to fnatic, and they came into ESEA playoffs rusty. That is why they were upset, sort of like how WMF was upset at GameGune Mexico.
I don't know why you're comparing fnatic, a stacked team to a mediocre-on-the-international-circuit-team like EG. Fnatic isn't head and shoulders above all the other teams anymore (as seen by the last tournament where they lost more than once in group to mediocre teams). They lost to Alternate in groups (this was before their advancement was guaranteed), who aren't even a top 5 international team. Here you are slamming EG for losing to the 4th seed in the playoffs. Fnatic's matchups with SK were close just like EG's matchups with complexity. They consistently overcome cs randomness because of the players they have, which is why they've made the grand finals at pretty much every tournament they've attended this year. My point in stating the group losses is to show you that fnatic is still a victim of cs randomness, but they managed to overcome it that time.
WeMadeFox doesn't have good teams to practice against, but they also play cs 10 hours a day. On top of that, they were upset by EG because of the lack of good scrims in Korea.
I feel like I'm being trolled. You're feeding me idiotic arguments and I'm wasting my time explaining each little thing to you. I'm done.
Anyone who doesn't agree that CS is random is a moron.
Fnatic was saying how they are usually sloppy and just can't get into the same mindset when they're doing group play compared to finals/play off matches. They almost always do amazing in play offs, so I think there is some truth to it.
On the fnatic point, I don't know how people don't realize that they play completely differently in groups than in the brackets, or how it was a revelation that they do badly in groups. For anyone who says, "but look they got beat *insert lesser team here* in groups," watch the matches. Fnatic isn't really getting outplayed when they go into those matches, they just goof off a lot more and blow their rounds. There is a difference in having a little bit of fun vs. putting everything on the line every match. EG almost always plays their matches as hard as they can. Fnatic doesn't.
As for CS being random, that's true and it isn't. Clearly the top team right now is fnatic. But as we've seen, sometimes not knowing what you're up against can throw a team off guard. SK against fnatic is a great example, as was MYM's showing with Zet where they placed 2nd(I mean, everyone figured they'd play great, but not that great). The reason teams can come in, without extensive practice, and win, is because their overall skill is extremely high, and they are hard to predict. That shows that CS is, to an extent, somewhat random. However, it should also be noted that many teams place at least relatively consistently to their expectations according to the community, which would indicate that, at least to some degree, there isn't as much randomness as you'd think.
#41 youre just a downie fan boy. If EG had such a hard time finding scrims, then wouldn't that logically mean all the teams in this event had a difficult time practicing? Half of your list from europe features teams who are second tier much like EG is yet they get to play all the top euro talent. Alternate, h2k, virtus none of these teams are serious threats to fnatic. Right now MTW, Mouz, MYM, and SK are really the only teams Fnatic has to seriously worry about.
Its humorous that you say fnatic holds the top 2 unquestionable best players in the world. What kind of bullsht are you spewing. There's a lot of players out there who are good and revival that of f0rest in skill. Neo, Zet, Roman, CYX, Zonic, Glow, Solo, n0thing. There's a lot of amazing players. Not just 2, and there is no way to define one as the single handedly best CS player since this is a TEAM game.
Fnatic blows in group because they play slack; They admit to this a lot in interviews. They also save strats and other things for finals. But guess what THEY DON'T lose in group. EG lost, they got crushed by col not even taking it to third map, then they get owned by DINC a bunch of up and comers. EG SUCKS admit or be delusional I don't care.
If CS is random then why aren't your beloved EG winning any international events (gamegune doesn't count its a joke)
Saying CS is random is a bad excuse for shtty teams and players to make up excuses why they lost. In the end Good teams come up the with W's consistantly. Every team has a bad day and a good day. Good teams Win consistantly, bad teams upset on occasion..
Saying cs is random is like saying football is random or soccer is random. Upsets happen; but that doesn't mean the game is random. There's usually underlying causes to why they lost, and its not randomness.
I'm pretty sick and tired of writing paragraph after paragraph and having them not read by you. It's a waste of time. So I'm gonna do it this way. It's a bit shorter and to the point.
- Alternate, h2k, virtus.pro are TEAMS that know what they are doing when it comes to CS. They don't play random/pug and they don't play dumb enough that it would hinder fnatic's abilities to do well. Meanwhile, EG playing a so called team like Area51 or Exigent would do them no good at all but instead it would give EG bad habits.
- GeT_RiGhT and f0rest are 1-2 this year. Zet, cyx, glow, n0thing. Really? What kind of bullsht are YOU spewing? n0thing had a difficult time against DINC. He is by far the top NA player, but he isn't better than GeT_RiGhT or f0rest. After saying sht like that, I wonder if I should continue to read what other bogus stuff you have written.
- EG slacked off in WCG as well. Like I said, EG isn't fnatic so stop being delusional and comparing the two teams. And by the way, they did lose in groups. Twice.
- Because CS can only be random to a point. Remember when the old EG beat fnatic 16-2. Remember when EG took SK (with face and khrystal) into OT on train. Remember when k23 upset a few teams in Chengdu (I think that was the tournament, not sure). CS is random.
- EG was 14-2 this season (1 forfeit loss, 1 loss on de_lite). I'd say that is pretty consistent. They show up to lan playoffs and they have an off weekend and you call them bad. Pretty hypocritical, don't you think. mousesports, a top5 international team failed to get out of groups at Chengdu (again, I think this was the tournament) losing to asian teams. Are they bad?
- Teams have off days. Fnatic has had them too, but they are talented enough to overcome that. Not sure any other team in the world besides SK has that ability, so why expect EG to as well?
- Usually in basketball, shots either fall or they don't. One unconscious movement during shooting and the shot is off. That is usually a big part in how upsets happen. In soccer, you either hit your goal or you don't. What if those shots that hit the goal post went in. What if during a penalty kick, the goalie had went the other way. Everything in sports has a bit of randomness in it. What if in baseball, the batter had lowered his bat too much and hit a foul ball instead of a home run. In CS, what if a player hadn't missed a pick and his team went on to win that round forcing the other team to save two rounds. What if a player managed to spam someone. CS is a pretty random game and I feel sorry for you not realizing that.
#45 - "EG slacked off in WCG as well. Like I said, EG isn't fnatic so stop being delusional and comparing the two teams. And by the way, they did lose in groups. Twice."
eg vs dinc
Scorebot: #EG
On a side note, how can you cheat and still play for a top 5 team? It seems like everyone just ignores the fact that sfx used to cheat. The guy plays so dumb and he's talking trash to frod like he can ever be half the player frod is. Another dumb asian trying to be black.
If EG can do well at WCG, I'm sure all is forgiven for tanking the ESEA playoffs.
welcome to the east coast scene. 98% of nerds.
dislodge eg's monster from your throat, thanks
Correct me if I'm wrong, but n0thing used smoke sprites while sfx used no-walls. I'm not on anyone's dick, just telling it like it is.
Before I went to work yesterday, I was hanging in the vent party for a little bit. Low and behold, Warden comes in to answer questions.... well.... not really....
Everyone in chat started calling him fat, and even though people asked legit questions, Warden just talked crap and focused on people calling him a fat tub of lard.
Anyways, the one question he did answer was what he thought about teams like Excello and DINC. He pretty much said they sucked and don't deserve to be in ESEA Invite.
So there you go Warden; you can now eat your own words. And that is with pun intended.
I'm sure the majority of you still think of complexity and evil geniuses as the top two American teams.
So what needs to happen?
One of the issues is that EG will never cut a player like Warden because of how long Warden has stuck to fRoD and Storm. Another is the fact that Lurrpis isn't American, and so for games like WCG they're already down a leg(even though they took one of the two spots up for grabs).
It's somewhat unfortunate I guess. I've speculated on what would help them in the long run, but it seems like fRoD and n0thing(and perhaps Storm) would be better suited somewhere else, as they are both easily in the top players of the US. While I could certainly see n0thing weighing out his options, I doubt fRoD would be so bold.
Counter-Strike is random enough that a simple roster change (from fnatic, SK and MYM.swe) with a weeks practice can take on the best teams with a few months practice. All it takes is a key frag here and there or a good flank and the game changes. fnatic has arguably the top two players in the world who are capable of getting those key frags. Even then, they still lost to SK (a team that changed out 2 of their key players). That is how random counter-strike is.
EG had a different roster at WCG as well, with tubby substituting for lurppis.
What happened against DINC was just bad timing and different motivations. They lost to DINC on pug maps like mill and d2, while raping them on team maps like nuke and train. Stuff happens on pug maps, especially d2.
As someone said on the hltv, it's nice to see a lower-tier team step up and compete with the best. Congrats to complexity and very well played DINC.
I agree with #30. They are too standard in their setups and strats, something complexity is not. They needed n0thing to step up and play "outside of the box", but he had an off tournament.
Lastly, Irukandji played amazing this tournament. Plenty of key frags. Props to him.
Or, it's because fnatic gets to scrim all the good teams in Europe to stay in shape. When was the last time any of the top american teams found a good scrim? Randomness affects teams who are rusty a great deal more.
fnatic has been a victim of CS randomness as well. They barely made it out of groups at the last international tournament, losing to teams who aren't even in the top 5.
Only a handful are good? Fnatic, SK, mtw, Vitrolic, Alternate, Mousesports, H2K, MyM, and virtus.pro are all teams off the top of my head who are good enough for Fnatic to go up against without developing bad habits. Who can EG play in NA? They know complexity by heart and Turmoil from what I hear is pretty inactive in the scrimming scene. They've managed to get 4 scrims in the past 2 weeks, two of them pugs of lower-tier invite teams. They can't play other invite teams because we have none who are good enough for EG. Fnatic has a wide variety of teams to play against, and thus they are fresher. EG came into this tournament rusty and they are using it as warm up for the WCG. That was my point, which you clearly missed.
It seems in your last response that you're comparing fnatic to EG, which is a complete joke. So let me get back to the point.
A team like fnatic holds that number 1 spot because they are talented, have the top 2 players in the world without question, and come into each tournament well prepared. EG's best player is n0thing who had a bad tournament. After that, besides frod, the talent they have isn't that much better than the rest of NA. They have a mediocre strat caller compared to fnatic, and they came into ESEA playoffs rusty. That is why they were upset, sort of like how WMF was upset at GameGune Mexico.
I don't know why you're comparing fnatic, a stacked team to a mediocre-on-the-international-circuit-team like EG. Fnatic isn't head and shoulders above all the other teams anymore (as seen by the last tournament where they lost more than once in group to mediocre teams). They lost to Alternate in groups (this was before their advancement was guaranteed), who aren't even a top 5 international team. Here you are slamming EG for losing to the 4th seed in the playoffs. Fnatic's matchups with SK were close just like EG's matchups with complexity. They consistently overcome cs randomness because of the players they have, which is why they've made the grand finals at pretty much every tournament they've attended this year. My point in stating the group losses is to show you that fnatic is still a victim of cs randomness, but they managed to overcome it that time.
WeMadeFox doesn't have good teams to practice against, but they also play cs 10 hours a day. On top of that, they were upset by EG because of the lack of good scrims in Korea.
I feel like I'm being trolled. You're feeding me idiotic arguments and I'm wasting my time explaining each little thing to you. I'm done.
Anyone who doesn't agree that CS is random is a moron.
As for CS being random, that's true and it isn't. Clearly the top team right now is fnatic. But as we've seen, sometimes not knowing what you're up against can throw a team off guard. SK against fnatic is a great example, as was MYM's showing with Zet where they placed 2nd(I mean, everyone figured they'd play great, but not that great). The reason teams can come in, without extensive practice, and win, is because their overall skill is extremely high, and they are hard to predict. That shows that CS is, to an extent, somewhat random. However, it should also be noted that many teams place at least relatively consistently to their expectations according to the community, which would indicate that, at least to some degree, there isn't as much randomness as you'd think.
Its humorous that you say fnatic holds the top 2 unquestionable best players in the world. What kind of bullsht are you spewing. There's a lot of players out there who are good and revival that of f0rest in skill. Neo, Zet, Roman, CYX, Zonic, Glow, Solo, n0thing. There's a lot of amazing players. Not just 2, and there is no way to define one as the single handedly best CS player since this is a TEAM game.
Fnatic blows in group because they play slack; They admit to this a lot in interviews. They also save strats and other things for finals. But guess what THEY DON'T lose in group. EG lost, they got crushed by col not even taking it to third map, then they get owned by DINC a bunch of up and comers. EG SUCKS admit or be delusional I don't care.
If CS is random then why aren't your beloved EG winning any international events (gamegune doesn't count its a joke)
Saying CS is random is a bad excuse for shtty teams and players to make up excuses why they lost. In the end Good teams come up the with W's consistantly. Every team has a bad day and a good day. Good teams Win consistantly, bad teams upset on occasion..
Saying cs is random is like saying football is random or soccer is random. Upsets happen; but that doesn't mean the game is random. There's usually underlying causes to why they lost, and its not randomness.
I'm pretty sick and tired of writing paragraph after paragraph and having them not read by you. It's a waste of time. So I'm gonna do it this way. It's a bit shorter and to the point.
- Alternate, h2k, virtus.pro are TEAMS that know what they are doing when it comes to CS. They don't play random/pug and they don't play dumb enough that it would hinder fnatic's abilities to do well. Meanwhile, EG playing a so called team like Area51 or Exigent would do them no good at all but instead it would give EG bad habits.
- GeT_RiGhT and f0rest are 1-2 this year. Zet, cyx, glow, n0thing. Really? What kind of bullsht are YOU spewing? n0thing had a difficult time against DINC. He is by far the top NA player, but he isn't better than GeT_RiGhT or f0rest. After saying sht like that, I wonder if I should continue to read what other bogus stuff you have written.
- EG slacked off in WCG as well. Like I said, EG isn't fnatic so stop being delusional and comparing the two teams. And by the way, they did lose in groups. Twice.
- Because CS can only be random to a point. Remember when the old EG beat fnatic 16-2. Remember when EG took SK (with face and khrystal) into OT on train. Remember when k23 upset a few teams in Chengdu (I think that was the tournament, not sure). CS is random.
- EG was 14-2 this season (1 forfeit loss, 1 loss on de_lite). I'd say that is pretty consistent. They show up to lan playoffs and they have an off weekend and you call them bad. Pretty hypocritical, don't you think. mousesports, a top5 international team failed to get out of groups at Chengdu (again, I think this was the tournament) losing to asian teams. Are they bad?
- Teams have off days. Fnatic has had them too, but they are talented enough to overcome that. Not sure any other team in the world besides SK has that ability, so why expect EG to as well?
- Usually in basketball, shots either fall or they don't. One unconscious movement during shooting and the shot is off. That is usually a big part in how upsets happen. In soccer, you either hit your goal or you don't. What if those shots that hit the goal post went in. What if during a penalty kick, the goalie had went the other way. Everything in sports has a bit of randomness in it. What if in baseball, the batter had lowered his bat too much and hit a foul ball instead of a home run. In CS, what if a player hadn't missed a pick and his team went on to win that round forcing the other team to save two rounds. What if a player managed to spam someone. CS is a pretty random game and I feel sorry for you not realizing that.
You realize they played with a stand-in, right?
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