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This week's Soapbox is a response to last week's Soapbox on "crouch-hopping". Adam "song2boy" Haselden thinks "crouch-hopping" should be illegal, what do you think? ![]() Welcome to the next installment of the Soapbox! Remember, this is your place to get your voice heard in a big way. Submit your rebuttals and new topics to soapbox@gotfrag.com. Include your GotFrag username in the email. ![]() This week's Soapbox was submitted by Adam "song2boy" Haselden and like all Soapboxes, it is solely his opinion. In Response To Crouch Hopping From my past experiences as a Counter-Strike gamer I've seen the sport evolve. Though several new "fads" have come and gone with the game, "crouch-hopping" is not the same, and should remain illegal. Next, I would like to take a look at what happens when you "crouch-hop" during a scrim or a match. When you "crouch-hop" more than a couple times, the player who is "crouch-hopping" has a distinct and clear unfair advantage due to the headshot "hitboxes" moving out of place. As many players that scrim, or possibly even played matches that have "crouch-hopping" players in it, you can clearly tell when the hit boxes of the head have been skewed. Time, after time I see players run into sites "crouch-hopping" and then can even stand one place with me shooting their head, and nothing happens to them. This is where the "crouch-hopping", at least in my opinion, gets a bad reputation. Now, I'm sure if ANYONE ever found out a player was purposely messing with the "hitboxes" so that they could get advantage in a situation, you could easily bet the entire community would be in an uproar about the situation. As I have said before, the author did not completely demonstrate all the facts that show the problems with "crouch-hopping". CAL's Ruling on "crouch-hopping" Note that crouch jumping to peek over boxes, ledges, etc. is legal. Additionally, crouch jumping to peek a corner is legal so long as it is not done repeatedly. These are the rules of two of the major North American leagues, and if you do not believe me feel free to look them up. I cannot believe that people are not outrage by these individuals’ opinions. “There have been several fads and techniques that have been discovered in Counter-Strike history, most of which were never restricted. Some of these including boosting, strafe-jumping, bunny-hopping, banking grenades off of ledges and walls, throwing a smoke grenade as a flash grenade in an attempt to make your opponent turn, stacking on a teammate’s head in order to see over a ledge or box, killing people through walls, and shooting through fake objects (i.e. the rock edge at the B window on de_dust2). While some of these techniques may be more effective than others when contrasting them with crouch-hopping, one question remains. Are these techniques or exploits?” After reading through my article, I want you take into careful consideration what the author is saying. According to this line of the author, “Some of these including boosting, strafe-jumping, bunny-hopping, banking grenades off of ledges and walls, throwing a smoke grenade as a flash grenade in an attempt to make your opponent turn, stacking on a teammate’s head in order to see over a ledge or box, killing people through walls, and shooting through fake objects (i.e. the rock edge at the B window on de_dust2).”, this author is putting “…throwing a smoke grenade as a flash grenade in an attempt to make your opponent turn..” in even the same ballpark as skewing the “hitboxes”. Now do you see why a lot of the community, including myself, is outraged by this attempt to include cheating into our ever growing e-sport? After much consideration, and much thought is put into this “crouch-hopping” exploit, the fact remains that “crouch-hopping” is an exploit and should be considered cheating. Despite it may make it more difficult for the admins to pay closer attention to this rule, this should be illegal, and it is their job to make sure illegal exploits are not used in ANY kind of play. |







User Comments
Totally agree with this article
"Are these techniques or exploits?"
That is the dumbest thing I have ever read or seen anyone write. WOW.
About the hitboxes,
i never happen to not hs someone who was crouch hoping in my face, i actually think its easier to headshot those people. that is if you have aim and don,t suck. or maybe i got the "technique" of killing crouch hopers... (sarcasm). its actually hard to shoot well and crouch hop at same time, hell is it even possible to do both perfectly?
I personally do it just for fun when it doesn't affect gameplay what so ever (like when round starts and stuff, just to practice), it still does make noise, and the noise is loud and precise enough to hear people and know if they crouch hop. just prepare yourself.
Remember,
CROUCH HOPING ABUSE IS ONLY ILLIGAL IN CAL, CEVO AND WCG 2007.
considering CAL sucks and CEVO is not the most popular league of all time,
crouch hoping is therefore illigal in 1% of CS tournaments and leagues.
crouching ducking with keyboard = fine
just look at the ESL (aka the only online league worth mentioning)
mb you should just learn to body shot the crouch walkers first (you know in counter strike this stops people from moving !) and then shoot their head, if your aim is so crazy good you think you're on their face every time.
i have no problem shooting crouch walkers, its the mouse abuse who can move totally silent that should be removed
and you can clearly hear someone crouch hopping... its not silent at all...
i think this guy got owned way too many time.
Not true. First of all it does make a sound, which is why good players don't use it in a 1v1 when they're close to the enemy and want to avoid being heard, and second of all it's not an unfair advantage since both sides can use it, and it's therefore not quicker than the enemy.
"the player who is "crouch-hopping" has a distinct and clear unfair advantage due to the headshot "hitboxes" moving out of place. As many players that scrim, or possibly even played matches that have "crouch-hopping" players in it, you can clearly tell when the hit boxes of the head have been skewed."
Again, not true. One, you can't shoot accurately while crouch running so you have to quickly pause/stop to then shoot. I know you can do this very fast but your way of presenting it implied you could shoot while crouch running which would, in reality, be even LESS accurate than shooting while running normally. Two, I would like you to come up with some precise evidence that the hitboxes are skewed when doing it. I constantly play vs crouch runners and the truth is that if you point and click at the right spot you'll headshot them. People not used to them will however be slow to react and will therefore shoot [i]behind[/i] them, which does NOT mean there is a hitbox problem but a problem with YOUR AIM. I don't really know how you came up with your "fact" that they can't be shot in the head even when they're still after crouch running because that's simply not true.
So basically this was a terrible answer to the other article.
In specific reference to CEVO, you have to figure out if something actually affected a round and justify making a ruling. The other problem with enforcing it is that it's done after the fact, after the match is done and gone. And lastly, what happens if it's not even reported? If it's done several times by another team but it's not witnessed by spectators or players?
Personally, after all my years of playing and sitting as a head admin, I am of the opinion that abolishing it as an illegal act is the most logical choice for everyone involved.
The only people it will end up hurting are the people that aren't skilled enough to do it. All it does is heighten the great aspect of Counter-Strike 1.6 that makes it so appealing to the masses, and that's the large skill gap it holds.
they aren't the same thing. shut up.
It's like a Street Fighter noob calling throws cheap.
1. it masks sound
In a noisy LAN game you sometimes cant hear ANY footsteps except when the guy is pointblank close. If he's using crouch run, you cant hear even those steps.
2. it distorts hitboxes
Wanna have a good ole' time? Try hitting a crouch runner with an awp, then get back at me.
Conclusion: it is an exploit, and clearly is unfair.
#26 ROFL noisy LAN game, get better headphones retard.
If you can't hear footsteps turn up your volume you scrub
And which of those would actually work and be used during a match? Come on now, you don't need to bring in ridiculous things to try and seem right.
Either way:
Personally, after all my years of playing and sitting as a head admin, I am of the opinion that abolishing it as an illegal act is the most logical choice for everyone involved.
The only people it will end up hurting are the people that aren't skilled enough to do it. All it does is heighten the great aspect of Counter-Strike 1.6 that makes it so appealing to the masses, and that's the large skill gap it holds.
It does get kind of ridiculous when people just CONSISTENTLY do it.
There have been a few occasions, oddly enough all with the awp, where I leg someone because they are crouch running, even if I am aiming above the waste, I assume this is because of the slight "jump" effect you get from crouch.
I do agree it adds a diffrent dimension to the game. If you are good at crouch running it can help you in A LOT of situation(ex bomb planted, flanking). It has its pros and cons but I hear more people ripping on it then praising it.
Crouch running IS something anyone can learn. It's not something like dunking a basketball where some people can and some people just CANT do it, so NO I don't think it should be banned, but I also don't think it shouldnt be abused(I think the ESL rule is the best rule for this)
NA is the only place crouch hopping is illegal, and OMG, its the only place where 1.6 is basically dead...
The European leagues are as strong as ever, European matches get THOUSANDS of spectators, the ESWC finals in France had 58,000 specs... and crouch hopping is legal!
So tell me again how crouch hopping is killing cs?
and dont even try to tell me that crouch hopping around a corner gives you no advantage... otherwise WHY would you do it? would you rather peek out normally and get your head blown off by someone who had their crosshair waiting at head level, or crouch-hop through their bullets with just enough time while you're moving to get an aim on him. admittedly it is somewhat similar to plainly jumping around a corner or doing a "spawn jump", so i am not as concerned with this issue as i am with crouch-hopping for a distance.
i feel that a good compromise would be making it illegal to hit crouch twice, and only allow it to be hit once. yes, it would be more awkward than crouch-hopping, but that way, people could still peek around corners with more of an advantage than simply peeking normally, but it would be dramatically less of an advantage than completely crouch hopping. it would sort of in effect "nerf" crouch hopping. it would also stop the exploit of masking sound in a way the game was not intended.
also, 1.6 isnt dead here. you ever hear of the expression the grass is always greener on the other side? go move to Europe since 1.6 seems to be booming over there according to you.
[i]Not only did he not mention the rules, but he also failed to mention all the facts. His argument is based upon several individuals’ opinions, and in no way supports the truth.[/i]
As far as I can tell, all you did was quote the CEVO and CAL rules. However, these were soon nulled by a CEVO-p Head Admin, who clearly says that the only problem that they have with making "crouch-hopping" illegal is enforcement. There have been rules around for a while now, yet why is it still happening? Because the players at the top levels don't care. They can all do it. As far as I can tell, that leaves your opinion and solely your opinion. You didn't even quote anyone else in this article, except the author of the initial article.
[i]Now do you see why a lot of the community, including myself, is outraged by this attempt to include cheating into our ever growing e-sport?[/i]
Again, the previous author managed to include SEVERAL quotes from the top players of American CS. These are the people that matter when changing the rules or changing the mindset of a world wide sporting community. Where are your quotes? From what I've gathered, the only people that care [i]are the people that aren't skilled enough to do it.[/i]
divito ur a joke for one....if your up cat and you flash it, it flashes the whole A site do u comprehend that? the whole site, thats why...its illegal...also ct's push long A, and a T uses the flash and blinds everyone at long A...easy kills.....what do you mean would they actually work, its an illegal flash THAT HAS NOT BEEN FIXED....IF you played cs you would know this....so get of your lil "cevo-p head admin" horse and quit talking...ur garbage
esl alone has more prize money annually than every 1.6 tournament in america, not to mention the fact that no 1.6 team can hold a candle to the european powerhouses (maybe emg now that azn is back in 1.6).
and im saying that if the thriving cs scene in europe is allowing crouch hopping, and all the best teams in the world are using it, and theres no problem with it where the real competition is... HOW can anyone say it's ruining the game?
you know there are plenty of flash bugs everywhere, even on the Justin's debugged ones.
crouch hoping is like bunny hoping, its part of the game, and its not because noobs can't do it and it should be banned. if you want a more friendly noob crap game, go play CS Source, because that is exactly what it is.
ps: americans are horrid at cs compared to europeans... beside of azn... azn, you rock, you are the man, if you were wearing pink shirts, i'd like you even more.
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