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Counter-Strike: Last Man Standing Issue #1

By: Mark Cheben - Published April 25, 2005 at 2:39 PM EDT - Writer Archive
Brent "brenter" Riesen brings us this new feature, where prominent members of the community answer tough questions and then are scored on their responses.


Welcome to the first issue of Last Man Standing!

How it works:

The premise of this feature is forming a panel of experts from the gaming scene and bringing them together into a discussion on current topics. The catch is that their arguments will be graded by myself, Brent Riesen, based on how effective and convincing they are. The expert with the lowest score after today will be eliminated from the group leaving only four left. In the future, more experts will be eliminated until there are two left. Once two experts are left, there will be a best of three showdown.

Before things get rolling, here’s an introduction of our panel of experts.

Jonathan "elude" Gilbert has been a long-time member and leader of the popular team TEC. He has a long history in CAL participating in the Draft league and has been in CAL-Invite from seasons four through thirteen. Jonathan has also been a frequent attendant to the CPL events placing as high as ninth and he has also had a very impressive local LAN attendance. Just recently, Jonathan has been put on the GotFrag All-Star Team for the second year in a row along with being one of the first high-level teams to switch to Source for the next CAL season.


Mark "jESUIT" Cheben has a solid history in competitive gaming from Counter-Strike to Day of Defeat to Call of Duty. The many teams he has been on have helped to put Texas on the map in gaming. His CAL-Invite CS history has been with the following teams: Team Texas, Clan Killers 3, Issues with authority, Texas Area Untouchables, and GameWyze. Mark has also participated in Day of Defeat and Call of Duty with NUDE, GameWyze and Rltw for DoD and GameWyze for CoD. Among his many achievements are a 13-16th place CPL finish in CS at Winter 2003, a 9-12th place CPL finish in COD at Summer 2004, and two CAL-Invite titles in DOD. His expertise has landed him as part of the GotFrag staff where he is a writer and news correspondent.


Trevor “midway” Schmidt has been a pioneer in the competitive gaming community and does not need much of an introduction, but he shall receive one anyways. He began in his first team WEW and moved on to become an administrator for RiTD. Trevor later went to work with DomainofGames and turned it into a top gaming site. He jumped at the opportunity to manage Infinite Impact in the CAL-Draft league in which the first season championship was won. Shortly after, he moved on to found GotFrag and has been the face of gaming coverage.


Grant "Griff" Hall came to the Counter-Strike scene out of nowhere with Clan Agent and quickly won CAL-Main Season 8 with a 16-3-1 record, moving them up to CAL-Invite. Grant was later involved with Eminence and attended Everlan and Summer CPL 2004 with TEC. Today, Grant is a member of Pandemic, which has become a successful multi-gaming team with strong sponsorships and continues to participate in CAL-Invite.


Jason “Alchemist” Baker, along with the MFAVP staff, has been covering computer gaming events, such as the CPL, since 2001. The popular daily videos that they have produced from various events have been able to bring viewers at home into the action that takes place. Jason served as a senior CAL admin for many seasons until mid 2004 where he joined TSN as a shout caster. His success with the feature "Art of the scrim" led him to join GotFrag as a writer in early 2005. Today, Jason is both a writer and in charge of the Media Department for GotFrag. Along with that, he continues to be a member of MFAVP and a commentator on the gaming scene in general.


Without further ado, here is the first question presented to the panel followed by their responses:

Question: As you all know, CEVO began with high expectations and has somewhat failed to live up to them. The paying community has been pretty supportive for the most part due to the apparent solid anti-cheat that was developed and as an alternative to the over-crowded CAL. My question for you is do you think the community should be as accommodating for CEVO's problems as it has been since the league's inception with matches being postponed and CMN functioning improperly?

RESPONSES

Jonathan "elude" Gilbert I do not think the community should be accommodating CEVO; they should have made sure their CMN was functioning 100% before they enforced it. Their main problem is not that CMN is not working; it's the ideology behind it. CEVO wants to completely rid online gaming from cheating, and I am going to tell you now that it is not possible. The best thing online leagues can do is let it happen then deal with it when it does. Once CEVO grows so will their problems, and cheaters will find ways around their CMN, it is not a matter of if, but when. The only reason online cheating seems out of control is because of CAL, and that is because CAL is understaffed and they cannot possibly keep cheating under control, CEVO is a much smaller league and could keep it under control. What CEVO needs to do, its put harsher punishments on cheaters and teams that harbor them and invest their time in something more constructive then their CMN. I believe they are going in the right direction with their online league, but their goals are too high especially since it's their first season.

Score: Two points

Mark "jESUIT" Cheben No, there is no reason to forgive a league who fails to deliver a product. Making everyone update their anti-cheat client the night of the matches and hosting those files on the server the anti-cheat uses to authenticate with is moronic at best. Also I have heard that the CMN has already been cracked. What people are paying for is a false sense of security, a smaller league, and mandatory reschedules. While any league starting off will have problems, the difference
with CEVO is you’re paying for them too. CEVO would have been much better off coding an anti-cheat in an obscure language as opposed to .NET to make it more hack resistant and had a trial season to iron out the logistical kinks. The idea is good, but when you’re paying for something the thought isn’t what counts.

Score: Four points

Trevor “midway” Schmidt We are talking about the CS Community here. While they back people, organizations often take the brunt of scrutiny. Did people give CPL a break when HLTV does work at their events? Imagine if those people where then paying for that HLTV. Glad I’m not CEVO, no matter what there reason is the community won’t stand for it long and they probably already have lost some support. I’m receiving tons of pms from people saying the league is a joke. While I’m not going to agree with that I can understand their frustration. Still ignore the CMN for a second, the concept of a pay for league with large cash prizes alone is worth doing, but I’m not sure the community will overlook the promises made of a cheat free environment. If the CMN continues to have issues CEVO’s success will be tied to effectiveness.

Score: Three points

Grant "Griff" Hall I think the community as a whole has settled for mediocrity for long enough. We have settled for a league where cheaters run rampant, we have settled for the same prize value at tournaments world wide for years and we have settled for a game in which the creators seem to disregard the people that are playing the game as it, in my opinion, is meant to be played. Stop rambling on and get back on topic you say? Done. CEVO came out of nowhere and made a big splash among the gaming community saying they could give more support against cheaters and overall offer a better league experience for the community. However, so many events and leagues are planned poorly that I would figure by now people would make sure that theirs would be better, different, and solid. I believe CEVO will come out of this alive and make a good impact on the community but they just don't seem to be ready yet. All of the people that paid for season 1 aren't getting all of what they have paid for. I don't believe the community should settle for this but to be honest there isn't really a whole lot we can do about it at this point we just have to push for better changes and sound leagues. I hope that CEVO is working hard to fix the problems that they are having but it isn't good for the community to not be prepared for the task at hand.
Score: Three points

Jason “Alchemist” Baker As much as our community loves to flame any mistake a person or an organization makes I have been pretty shocked by the support CEVO has received. Either their hate for CAL is that strong or they really believe in what CEVO is trying to do. CEVO is offering the holy grail of online play; a cheat free season that you could earn money by winning. It’s a great idea. I just do not think it will ever happen. The CMN still looks like it needs more development time and CEVO itself needs more servers to support the amount of traffic the CMN creates. When asking people to pay for a product, you need to deliver even the basics. So far CEVO has even failed at that. It takes a lot of hard work to run a league then add in the extra customer support for players that can not even read the basic rules page let alone the install instructions for CMN then you are in a world of trouble. It is only a matter of time for the most enthusiastic CEVO fan boy to turn on them.

Score: Four points

Wrap-up
As expected, each participant seems to have an issue with CEVO, but some were much more critical. Alchemist and Midway have more of a moderate viewpoint on the matter and they seemed much more supportive of what CEVO was trying to accomplish. Jesuit, Elude, and Griff all thought that CEVO should have made sure all CMN problems were fixed before the season began and are very critical of that aspect. All in all, everyone does seem to envision CEVO having a successful run in the future, but that the first season have been somewhat unimpressive.

All the arguments were very sound, but some stood above the rest. Jesuit’s was a bit overly critical, but he did have a great point in some mistakes made by CEVO. Alchemist’s was similar, but not as harsh and for that it seemed just as strong. Both Griff and Midway continued to stress that the community needs to unite for CEVO to work, but neither of them really went on a limb one way or another. Although Elude had some great points, the way his argument was formed suggested that CMN was unacceptable. Although the program has had its struggles, his stance on CMN being somewhat hopeless just does not seem right when it’s the only league that has made an attempt to try something new. In addition, his clarification that CEVO should just deal with cheating as it happens without a clear policy is simply not aggressive enough these days and his points did not convince me otherwise.

With that, Elude has been eliminated the very first week with two points. Here are the rankings as they currently stand…

NAME
ISSUE 1 ISSUE 2ISSUE 3ISSUE 4ISSUE 5TOTAL
Alchemist
4 4
jESUIT
4 4
Midway
3 3
Griff
3 3
Elude
2XXXX2


Make sure you check back for the next issue of Last Man Standing. There will be no eliminations next time. In addition, all GotFrag Prime members have two opportunities awaiting them. Two threads have been made in the Prime forums. One thread allows Prime members to bring up topics that they think would facilitate a great discussion from our expert panel. Even more exciting is that the second thread allows Prime members to vote on whose argument was the strongest and whose was the weakest. After all the votes are tallied, the expert with the highest amount of “strongest argument” votes will get one point extra added to their score.

Come back next week and watch the road to the Last Man Standing crown!

User Comments

1
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did this happen to be inspired by around the horn?
2
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Nice format!

and nice artwork by aztk as always.
Yes. The cQ.
3
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cool read
4
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oooh bruca ree very powerafoll hasooooo WATAAAA!
5
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lol, i coulda told you that elude would be the first one eliminated.
6
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GotFrag Prime!
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Sweet article guys :)
Yeah, that joeker
7
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woober get a life ^_^
ima cyba affweet
8
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elude gets the boot

this reminds me of "around the horn" like #1 said
9
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lol, god everyone in the CS community hates elude. just like he will hate and probly kill himself when source goes downhill and 1.6 is still around.
10
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elude! better get working harder!
eLement.cs forever

very nice article guys ^^

better luck next time elude! :0)
12
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good article
pinoystylez~
13
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Is there a point to eliminating people? Trying to make it like a reality show? All it seems to me is that with each installment you are limiting the different perspectives available on each topic. But I guess if it's not interesting in itself you have to make it interesting...
14
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this is stupid and i'm gonna tell you why, who are you to rate the "panel of experts". Also Bruce Lee has nothing to do with this thread how dare you associate him with this.

Disgraceful
15
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and another thing you're a stupid head
16
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so... I see a space missing in the first sentence. I demand you fire SirScoots immediately.
17
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lol #15

i guess it was...interesting....maybe
18
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[i]With that, Elude has been eliminated the very first week with two points[/i]

LOL
\o/
19
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meh... Hearing all the perspectives was nice but I'm not getting into the whole elimination thing
Andrew Hammett | Coverage Director | www.GotFrag.com | #gotfrag
20
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jESUIT hands down.
I AM LEGEND

you are the weakest link
22
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lol nice idea although you could have picked way better people to take part.
23
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Is it just me or does that pic of bruce lee look like he has two right hands?
24
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I tend to agree with #14. This is pretty dumb. What credentials do you have in debate and/or what makes you think you know more than the so called panel of experts. Not only is it stupid, I fail to see the point in this.

Just ask them the farking questions.
25
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I don't see a point to eliminating one of them in the first week. You should have let them all stay around for the 1st round and started eliminations the 2nd round (instead of eliminating right away).

Also, perhaps there should be two people judging the comments, since your views are biased (ex. "his stance on CMN being somewhat hopeless just does not seem right"). Of course it doesn't seem right to you...you have your own viewpoints. But elude's comment was one of the only original ones stating that the anti-cheat just plain sucks. Different viewpoints are the things that make debates interesting...are you going to keep eliminating the people that don't agree with everyone else?

This comment was edited at 04/25/2005 4:28 PM
26
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Hmm, the panel of experts isn't very interesting as we hear stuff from these people on a regular basis. I found the article to be very boring, but maybe it'll be better next time...?
Editor in Chief DPAD eSports, GotFrag member since Day 1.
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i agree with 25, your judging is obviously going to be biased, thats why judge panels always have multiple people (also less likely there will be a tie between people causing problems of eliminating someone)
Alpha Team Clan Shabba Krew Gaming Royalty Syndicate Two Thousand | Pie Squadron | Face Guild
28
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noice stuff
i care when im paid to - #united5
29
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Love how midway has pink font ^_^
"sit on your hand for a few hours till you dont feel it anymore, then use it, pwns" -Lango
30
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wasn't it midway and other's on gotfrag who first wrote that article on the amazing features of cevo?
Edit:Aka cmn live

This comment was edited at 04/25/2005 4:06 PM
31
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I don't understand at all how the point system works? Is it that their point of view wasn't the same as yours so you give them less points?? Or was it who produced the more 'solid answer'...
we're in a box
32
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NICE READ!
33
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did someone say around the horn rip off?~
GUNIT~
34
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good read, point system is flawed though...they all said pretty much the same thing yet elude got 2points...
Turn On Tune In Drop Out
35
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how about the gotfrag ppl vote them out, as opposed to obscure person.

hey, maybe the whole voting thing isnt even necessary? Its enough just to read people's viewpoints
36
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Well, I can't really agree with people saying CEVO is a joke. Maybe it is a joke because they got their ass handed to them without their cheats, or configs, but only ignorant people will downplay what it is trying to do. I'm not sure why someone would want to bash CEVO, except unless their expectations are extremely high. And that tends to happen in this community and that is a shame, especially for these panel of "experts". All this talk will help discourage a positive cause and I find that the wrong approach for a site that relates to e-sports news, unless they like biting the hand that feeds them.

In the end, this is an interesting feature, but I would have to say I am glad they eliminate people, because I'd like to see people other than those who were included this time around.
37
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retarded
38
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I think you need to hire some proofreaders and editing staff. I've found a few grammatical errors (even being small) should be corrected very easily by the staff. The article loses professionalism when articles aren't re-read and corrected.
39
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I agree with #25, you need to make sure you 'grade' on how strong the argument was supported, not whether you agree with it or not.

And don't listen to the 'omg you think your better than everyone else lecture more kthxbye' crowd, discussion and politics are good to show people both sides of the ying-yang.

And the elimination, it makes the article series interesting; as opposed to just reading everyones POV every week.
<3 all
40
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props on the bruce lee banner :)
41
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Elimination forces contestants to write well thought through ideas. If you dont you get booted. Also in game format it become less personal, less fighting, debates always ends up having one guy holding the same point, just trying to use his large vocabulary to win.

I am just guessing here but the Bruce Lee picture was used because of the title Last Man Standing, and Bruce being a good canidate to be the Last Man Standing in a fighting sence would represent the article well. Bruce Lee is the man why now have him up there. jeet kune do FOREVER!
42
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yup nice
43
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hopefully on the next issue, not all of the experts will have such similiar standpoints.
#.eP :: extreme Perfection :: cal-main ::
44
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well, there goes the person that likes source. pity, i was waiting for a question about source to come around, to see the answers for that. i dont think people should be eliminated =\ i wanted to see everyone's opinion. or at least jesuits, alchemists, and midways
EMO AND PROUD OF IT. :D
45
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Prime members vote here:
http://www.gotfrag.com/portal/threads/129734/

I try to remain a neutral observer. It's not about them saying something I agree with but more about convincing me of their opinion.

Yes, its obviously inspired by Around the Horn as I think it's a great show and thought it would be possible to convert it over to GotFrag.

The original plan was going to be having voting, but that won't be supported until Version 3 so I decided to move forward like this.

#39 and #41 have great points.

This comment was edited at 04/25/2005 8:07 PM
46
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wow nice grammer/spelling midway.
I LIKE CS TO PLAY
47
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bruce lee is just cool! :D:D
i'm smart;)
48
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get mike and wilbon from pti and ask what they think bout cevo
49
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this seems REAL vague.. and perchance fruity ^_^
[b]#swa[/b] - [i] elite sisters with attitude [/i]
50
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#46, at least spell your grammar/spelling insult correclty, idiot :)

This comment was edited at 04/25/2005 5:17 PM

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