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Counter-Strike Source: Soapbox: On Let's Make A Deal

By: Jeff Lada - Published February 23, 2008 at 12:17 AM EST - Writer Archive
GotFrag user Jeff "AlphA" Lada offers his opinion of the controversy surrounding the Complexity vs. Devastation match to decide the final playoff spot in CEVO Pro Source Season 5.


Welcome to the next installment of the Soapbox! Remember, this is your place to get your voice heard in a big way. Submit your rebuttals and new topics to soapbox@gotfrag.com. Include your GotFrag username in the email.

All GotFrag Soapboxes are the opinion of the author and do not reflect in anyway the opinion of GotFrag or its parent company Major League Gaming.



In Response to "Let's Make A Deal"

This week's Soapbox was submitted by GotFrag user Jeff "AlphA" Lada and is solely his opinion.

As a foreword, I have had the pleasure of playing with two members of Devastation, Classified and Sauce, in my past CS:S teams (Amplify and Zomblerz). I have also had the pleasure of playing against compLexity in scrims/matches a countless number of times since they switched over to source-- from the day they announced it (and were miserable) and up until just a few days ago. As a side note, I have also been an avid compLexity fan since Bullseye played with them in who-knows-what season of CAL 1.6.

That being said, the situation, as Warden so eloquently put it, is sh***y. It's really that simple. Let's break it down, shall we?

Complexity is known for winning, making playoffs, and usually finishing first or within the money. It's no secret, and everyone knows this. However, now that CGS is over, the money has been pocketed, and the coL CS:S players are essentially locked into next years season, they have been playing much less than they were accustomed in the past few months (a fact they will admit). So, they're losing. All fanboyism, excuses, and nonsense aside -- coL is losing, period-- and far more frequently than they have in recent memory, whether it be 1.6 or Source.

In addition to the aforementioned facts (and in case you didn't get the memo) -- CEVO-P is very competitive, save for a few teams that, admittedly, shouldn't be there anyway. So, this inevitably creates the dilemma of coL being a "bubble" team to make playoffs for the first time since _______ (any coL historians in the crowd)? So, the pressure is on for coL to make it and win, as is expected of them by Jason, their fans, and, of course, themselves.

So, once again for the first time in a LONG while, you have a situation in which a single match determines whether coL will go to playoffs. Thus, it's coL vs. Devastation on the not-so-popular 1.6 map de_contra to see who gets to go to playoffs. Long story short, Devastation is taking it to compLexity in the second half, Dev's up 5-0, and the score is 8-6 in Dev's favor ... and the LAN'ed coL players get packeted, lag out, pull the plug, Al Gore shuts off the interwebs, or whatever you choose to believe.

In an absolute worst case money situation for Dev (assuming each player had exactly $0 dollars the last round they won, and negating $300 for a the frags of that round), each player would have a total of $3250, considering they did in fact win the round. As common sense would dictate, that clearly wasn't the case, and compLexity was obviously hurting in the money comfort department. Thus, Warden offering 3k and 5k startmoney situations is absolutely, 100%, undeniably, completely ridiculous. Sorry, Dino, been a fan of you forever, but both you and I know it's not fair given the circumstances. Fourth grade math and a slight to moderate knowledge of the game clearly indicates that Dev has quite a bit of money while coL has, at best, moderate amounts.

This means coL is hurting for money and has to win four of the remaining six rounds to make playoffs. Ouch, anyone? Sure, it can be done, but !8ball says outlook not so good.

So, is Dev correct for wanting proper money given the outcome of the match determines who gets to play for quite a bit of cash in playoffs? Absolutely. Did Sasquatch not have a portion of his demo so the CEVO admins could give the players their proper money? Yes.

Should CEVO use common sense when allocating the player's individual money if the demo isn't available? Yes. Is there a rule about not having demos in CEVO? Of course, but Sasquatch wasn't cheating, as everyone already knows -- the only question is his money, which, at worse, as I stated, would be 3250.

Did coL get packeted, pull the plug, etc etc etc? Who knows.

Did coL make a questionable and underhanded offer to Dev? I'm gonna go with yes, as Warden has already implied that he did, and that's not something Sasquatch would make up. Was coL wrong for making that offer? Absolutely. Was Sasquatch "right" for posting the log (two wrongs don't make a right)? I suppose it depends on your morals and where your loyalty lies.

Would coL have lost had the match been played out with proper money? Probably. Would coL have lost had the match been played out with no pauses? Probably. Complexity offering up half of their POTENTIAL, not guaranteed, winnings on a bribe for a forfeit is an incredible risk that only indicates that they were scared of losing to begin with. If they believed they would win in a fair money format restart, they offer wouldn't have been made, period. Essentially, it's a slap in Devastation's face because the underlying connotation is that compLexity fears they're going to lose, but believes they will do better than Dev in playoffs (plus it's coL!!! Aren't they SUPPOSED to be in playoffs?). So, they might as well offer half their cash to Dev instead of missing playoffs altogether and getting nothing.

I can tell you this, though. It's simply a business decision for both teams. Both teams play to win, but who's going to get their return on investment, and what risk value do you assess to "probablies"? Unfortunately, there is gray area to business that there are no rules for. I hope that CEVO uses common sense for the gray area when making a ruling; it's very simple and doesn't take a Ph.D in CS to figure out. Reset the match with the correct money amounts to each player that has demos available, if they aren't available, give that player the "worst cast scenario" amount. Start the half 5-0 Devastation, and play out. Good luck, have fun, and oh ya... don't allow yourself to be in the middle of a sh***y situation if you don't have the resolve and determination to clean it up.


Have something to say on this? Let GotFrag know what you think! Submit your responses to soapbox@gotfrag.com and let your voice be heard in a big way. Please include your GotFrag username in the email.

User Comments


<redcell`jersey> !8ball is jeff ladas opinion that !8ball says coL wouldnt win vs DEV correct?
<@ChanServ> redcell`jersey: Reading foggy -- try again later.ter
neo is the best cs player ever, if you disagree, you are a scrub.
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this all just makes me laugh
#majin
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rhetorical questions are good in moderation.

In other news, if the rule says demos are required and you forfeit by not having them, then that's the rule. It's all good and well to say "well CEVO meant the rule to only be used for players suspected of cheating", but unfortunately the spirit of the rule wasn't included in the rule.

Poor situation for Devastation, but from recollection something very similar also happened in the CEVO-p season3 playoffs, during which hyper forfeited verge (not 100% on the teams) for lack of demos. It's happened before without the rules being changed or ignored, and I imagine it will happen again.

Still, absolutely understandable for both Devastation and Complexity to fight for this; I would hate to be in either team's situation.
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there are loads of fallacy in this article
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#2's got it
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thanks AlphA.
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My breath smells and I'm out of toothpaste =(
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Nice job alpha, very well analysed
How does it feel?
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I never liked compLexity.
Gustav "NeZ^" Larimore -- Flashlight Orchestra -- #Flo -- ESEA-O
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i think we all want to know the thoughts of Brad Dick on this situation
Who is pete???
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I pencil is dirty.
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so everyone that was saying that the logs were fake, ARE WRONG!!!!1

Sighmeter: High.
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good read, well explained
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just start the match over again.

from the START

not that i watch or play css, but col should be in playoffs :0
ArchoN: " wait wait where are the heaton haters now? THAT BANDWAGON MOVED ON~ "
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coL doesn't deserve it
the very act of warden trying to fix it makes me hate coL ! and warden accepted it so I don't even have a doubt about it.
BORN TO FRAG ! ~<:O)
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This reminds me of Adam Sandler in "The Longest Yard."
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I went out and got some toothpaste =) But now my armpits smell and I'm out of deodorant =(
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WARDEN ADMITS TO THE WHOLE THING IN VENTRILLO he leaked it finally.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qtjTYaZ_Gzk
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#20 that was a fail
I like Turtles
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#21 if it was about turtles it would of been better.
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good review
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#20 lol sumo wrestler
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LoL DuDe LoL

who gave alphaneo permission to write a gotfrag article?
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LOL #25
v4v / r00fz : ffs, twat
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Good Read!


Aswell as i think this is true.
Also lacking demos is a rule and rules are rules.
Both teams should get a forfeit and complexity banned from CEVO for the next season!
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HarryB, i swear you brooklyn cats never stop delivering ^_^
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good read


harryb, wheresmy pizza
Q6600 | Gigabyte P35-DS3L | 4GB G.Skill Pi | Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro 7 | 320GB | 9800GTX+
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yall got is twisted.. nobody "should" or "shouldn't" be in the playoffs.. you gotta earn it and if you slack off your gonna pay the price...look at the yankees .. shouldn't their fan favorite team win the world series....not quite..nothing is handed to you...welcome to the real world complexity is falling off for the time being until they pull their heads out their asses.. we live in a performance based society...if you aint performing your off the map
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GotFrag Prime!
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Yeah they were probably worried Jason was going to be mad for the lack of practice or something. I have mad respect for the abilities of coL and Rambo/zet are two of my all time favorite players but honestly they are getting paid a decent wage to just play video games all day. Not knowing a map in a pretty serious competition can only be blamed on them and they should have swallowed their pride and took the loss. You can't have your cake and eat it too Warden.
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i think its something normal we see this in sports all over the world, with soccer player's and more, if e-sports is turning as big as sports then its going to be something normal to see..
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#33 get real there is more physical contact in poker than cs source and the e-sports world. This is not suppose to happen. Cevo should just make a rematch.
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CEVO is tied by their own system. There is no rule saying you can't ask the other team to forfeit. This may fall under the "Unsportsmanlike Conduct" rule, but IRC chat logs can't be used as evidence since they're so easy to fake.

I don't care about either team so what I'm about to say isn't biased.

Since Warden isn't refuting anything, it seems he did try to pay off dev, but with that being said, it's only morally wrong, not legally.

Now, what I think should happen is this. Because of the current situation, CEVO needs to look at the rules and change them so that this never happens again. But complexity should be allowed to continue playing since what Warden did, technically, wasn't wrong.

It's a lot like the criminal justice system.

This comment was edited at 02/23/2008 3:16 PM
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Why is it even POSSIBLY 'wrong' for sasquatch to post what Warden said to him (as the article implied)? Isn't exposing corruption and attempted bribery A GOOD THING?

Also #35 there's an 'escape clause' that essentially allows CEVO admins to make whatever they want up on the spot and still have it count as a 'rule'. I think this would be a good time to use it.
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Last two comments are PRICELESS
LoL!
LoL DuDe LoL
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nice read

ahahaha #25, internet + kids with too much freetime = win
IM A KIXER FAN
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1.6 is much better.
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To #36, IRC logs can't be used as evidence.
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This is almost as bad as when I found out that Mark McGuire used steroids.

This comment was edited at 02/24/2008 12:31 PM
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I think both teams got what they deserved. Does AlphA live in a world where it's ok to break rules? The fact that "sasquatch wasn't cheating" is irrelevant to the fact that everyone must provide a demo. From AlphA's mentality, its justifiable to use performance enhancers in sports. It's a simple fact that recording a demo has performance disadvantages as the process utilizes a significant amount of system resources even on high-end computers. Players who are not recording have an advantaged environment in the match. Nevertheless, rules are imposed to protect players from unfair play. Without rules we would just have AlphA-like referees who would justify when rules were broken with irrelevant reasoning. I could eleborate all day on the "loads of fallacy" in this article, but I would just be wasting my time and ultimately "This week's Soapbox was submitted by GotFrag user Jeff "AlphA" Lada and is solely his opinion."
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You just wrote what everyone already knew and added your own opinion to the matter. What is this fox news?
It might be a Tumour, IT'S NOT A TUMOUR!!
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This isnt a payoff you twits... In poker we call this a 50/50 Chop...

#46 Wrong, in poker we call this insurance
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Yes, I agree with #44 here, you are assuming a lot. Just because you think someone is not cheating does not give them the right to not record a demo, it is in the rules. As for your assumption that coL would have lost that match, you may be right, but we all know complexity is a better team and are known for performing well under pressure, so you can not assume that they would have lost. Also, they would not have gotten in this situation of being down 8-6 if not for the lag and packeting, it is well known that in the first 5 rounds of the half complexity players were lagging out. As for the warden thing, it is quite obvious that warden did not do this on his own, i am almost 100% positive that it was a team decision, even warden is not dumb enough to do it on his own. Either way, you are right it is immoral and should not be done, but we must take a few things into account, is devastation had won, they prob would not have been able to play in the playoffs anyway without their core 5, so they would have had a very bad chance of winning. I am not saying wat complexity did was right, but it is not as bad as everyone says it is, i think it had to do with a lot more than just the fact that they wanted to keep their reputation. This is all assuming that complexity is guilty of bribery, which i still am not convinced of.
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coL FTW.
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Nice write up Alpha.

Its a shame coL didn't let us play, it was their call.

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