GotFrag eSports

"You can't combine the two unless you put some sort of control on the gimmicks, and they didn't want to."

Could you please introduce yourself to those that do not already know?

I'm an oldschool gamer who happens to be a software consultant in real life. I messed around with modding for Q2 a bit, but didn't really get serious about it till Q3 when I finally had enough spare time to do more than just play. I did a couple of things for the original CPM mod, then led the development for CPMA and started working with Rhea on OSP (since they used the same codebase).

How did you come to relations with the Q4Max development team?

I hadn't planned on taking such an active role in Q4 really. The Max team had asked me if I'd be willing to advise them, and maybe help out with some of the more complicated things, but that was all I really had in mind.

What I hadn't considered much though was the vacuum that Rhea and I "retiring" would leave in the community, and the power grabs that certain people would try to make as a result. (See my column "The Bullshit Begins" on ESR from around that time). That would have wrecked a community that was already very fragile, and since I planned on playing Q4 I pretty much HAD to step in at that point.

For a while there were talks between Q4Max and X-Battle about a possible merger, though, there were disagreements. Were the indifferences apparent; as well as the Design complications?

Differences in philosophy as much as anything else: our focus is on providing a competition mod, and theirs is on making a "gimmicks" mod. You can't combine the two unless you put some sort of control on the gimmicks, and they didn't want to.

You can see the impact of that difference very clearly even in the first releases of the two. We produced something that was rock solid and ran in CPL Winter without a single problem. XBM wasn't even suitable "out of the box" for the one league they were supposed to be supporting. You just can't pull stunts like that and expect to be taken seriously: can you imagine how embarrassing it would be for something like that to happen at a CPL event or a season finals?

Gimmick mods are a great thing, and every game should have at least one, but they're not something to use for competitive play: the two concepts just conflict too much, so with the two teams unable to agree on which was more important there was just no way they could go forward together.

Time and time again we heard "before CPL", what happened?

Q4 is very different to earlier Quakes as far as demo compatibility goes. Any changes to almost anything, including models etc, breaks demos. The only way we could be absolutely sure that people would be able to watch the CPL Winter demos was by releasing EXACTLY that version to the public, which meant waiting until CPL was actually underway just in case there were any last minute changes.

Tell us a bit about the features in the latest Q4Max (.71)

71 addresses three key Q4 issues: basic competition support (referees, modes, votes, teamlocks, autoactions, etc) for leagues and events; performance improvements so that the game is actually playable with decent framerates (r_vertexLight, internal optimisations, etc); and a gametype that's easy for the less hardcore crowd to get into: Clan Arena. I'm very happy that we managed to get all of those done in such an early release: hopefully it'll be a shot of adrenaline for the community.

How is the relationship with the CPL?

Very good. I know there are people who like to take shots at them on fourms etc simply because they're such a visible target, but when you work with them you get to see how much they really care about the competitive community: it's a lot more than just Generic Business to them. I'll get emails from Angel and Justin (Blanchard, the Q4 Commissioner) at 6am on a Sunday to talk about spawnsystems, ways to improve things for spectators, and so on: that impresses the hell out of me.

How is the Q4 SDK? Is it going to make for an easy future, or a difficult one?

It's a very mixed bag. Frankly, the Doom3 engine is flat out not designed for multiplayer at all: it's like going back in time to pre-QW id engines. That side of things is incredibly frustrating. Then there's the other half of it, where you look at the potential inherent in it and you think "man, six months from now we're going to be doing incredible stuff with this".

Being that fnatic club is so closely related to fnatic team, what is being done to ensure influences don't find their way to production? Surely someone on a competitive level must test the modifications before release, seems like a catch-22 situation.

What do fnatic have to do with anything? As far as testing goes, we never had a hard time finding people to test OSP and it's the same now: our relationship with all the leagues and GSP's means that we get the same sort of support from the community that we give them by producing the mod in the first place.

What can we look forward to in future incarnations? Anything secretive you'd care to slip a hint on?

The next release or two will probably just be enhancing the areas we're already working on. Things will get very interesting in a month or so though when the mod's roughly on par with CPMA/OSP and we're free to work on new ideas.

Upward clock counting is a much wanted feature, though, on the Q4Max forums you stated it was not going to be included. For those that don't know, could you further explain why?

Sure, because repeating myself 50 times is absolutely the best way to spend the time that could be going into implementing MVD or better netcode instead...

Are there currently any thoughts of expansion, such as the creation of maps? To me, nothing sounds more logical than a competitive mod team behind competitive maps.

We're undecided on that ATM. The CPMA team made a point of "blessing" some of the best Q3 maps and including them with the mod, but we'll see how it goes with Q4 once auto-downloads work.

How good are the chances of a total browser overhaul in an upcoming release? Is it something the team has conceded would be better left to an individual program?

Yeah, I think there are better things to spend developer time on. If Yahoo drop the ball with ASE (which seems to be what's happening) then the community will just switch to Echelon or whatever.

Thanks for your time arQon, you're a big part of the past, present and future development of competitive Quake 4. Any last words, anything you would like to say?

Thanks. I'd definitely encourage everyone to stick with Q4 while it goes through this early rough stage. It's going to be an incredible game in a couple of months with a very bright future, and you really don't want to miss it. :)

User Comments

hopefully will make q4 a better game after this.

This comment was edited at 01/15/2006 1:19 AM

Good job.

CSREVOLUTION

Nice Qs.

Courage is the discovery that you may not win, and trying when you know you can lose.

Uh, #3. Actually I (and a lot of people) have seen that post. It's not up on their site in black and white, it's a single post in a locked thread somewhere in their forums. And most people don't even think his answer as to why not was satisfactory...

It's not a dumb question, arQon is just an a-hole (albeit lovable).

they call me bruce

yes, and apparently an upward counting clock is a gimmick (although its something 90% of the competitive community wants). wheres rhea :<

#5 - I think something as insignificant in the mod as an upwards counting clock is quite the idiotic question. It makes me even wonder whether or not the kids asking about it play or can play serious enough to pay attention to the rest of the mod's detail.

Other than that, pretty good interview.

Word.

Eh, #7, I'm not saying that I don't disagree with you that it's insignificant when you look at the big picture... but it'd be crazy for you to say that the community hasn't been crying about it quite a bit... though it has died down a bit.

Thats a really tight logo.

May he who desires peace, Prepare for war

arQon is great.

there, I said it.

Yeah... arQon. People say he did good things on Q3 with his mods, unfortunately he is an arrogant person and sometimes he thinks he is "the god" or should I say father of the Quake community. If you don't believe it maybe you should read some of his posts on esreality or on the Q4Max forums which have some sort of nazi treatment.
I recognize that his work helps the community but maybe he should try to put his feet on the earth before posting or answering interviews.

Anyway its nice to see that gotfrag is trying to build a quake 4 presence on the community and having this kind of interviews and event coverage will allow quake4 to be known a little bit more in other gaming communities.

"Frankly, the Doom3 engine is flat out not designed for multiplayer at all"

u sure got it right man
tbh i didnt like the doom3 einine at all not even on singal
evrything just look to metaly or samth even none metal stuff

how do you time items between teams if everyone is running a different clock?

_o/ . indifference

arQon proving again how much of an arrogant jackass he is with the timer count up, he talks about making a competitive mod but his reasoning on the q4max forums as to why he would not have a count up is becuase of TDM pubs........this is probably why some of the better coders on the team (semicolon) left

"Sure, because repeating myself 50 times is absolutely the best way to spend the time that could be going into implementing MVD or better netcode instead..."

burn.

he may be arrogant, but q3osp, q3cpma, and q4max all kick serious ass.

:-D

#14 what's the problem? if quad spawns in 10 seconds, it spawns in 10 seconds. :)

What is the question about fnatic? We have nothing to do with this mod.

Gee, a positive arqon interview. I'm shocked he didn't say the game sucks through and through this time.

#17: the problem is, somebody might say "mh @ 10" meaning it will spawn at xx:10. If everybody is running a different clock, the message doesn't make sense anymore.

Sure, if you only use messages like "mh IN 10" it works, but I think it's hardly the case; it's easier to create binds for saying at which time it'll spawn based on your previous observation, not seeing what time is now, calculating how much time is left, then saying it.

Really, the clock discussion has gotten way out of hand. It's probably extremely easy to implement, but it will only cause trouble if done. The best thing the Q4 community has to do is decide for a standard and stick to it - something q4max is trying to do. Demanding change for personal reasons is just an egotistical way of looking into things - screwing the whole game for a pseudo self gratification. Just get used to it the way it is now and everyone will benefit.

This comment was edited at 01/15/2006 9:09 AM

Pompous and arrogant. I expected more.

Gustav "NeZ^" Larimore -- Flashlight Orchestra -- #Flo -- ESEA-O

#20 or as a team u decide which clock to use but that might be too hard to organize

#club-sx Fort Drum, NY

#18 propbably because you were co-leading the project in the beggining? i think that's right at least >.<

"It's going to be an incredible game in a couple of months with a very bright future, and you really don't want to miss it. :)"

I hope so.

#kNoWs ~ #clubxx

How do u play as a team if ur not in the same vent?
thats a stupid question having the option hurts no one and the fact that was completed and he said NO dont even put that option in the release is ridiculous.

q4 is still too slow movement wise...i'd like to see something as fast as CPMA for q4

Arrogant but making our competition mod. Can't do much about it.

arrogant - that's the word i was seeking for. thx #27 =]

hubster ftw

they should have asked a question like "Why are you such an @sshole". O well, we still want the clock that counts up btw.

How about everyone focuses on other important problems, than which way the numbers count. There isn't even a benefit to going up, let alone crying about it when they are trying to improve the quality of the mod in general for the good people that are going to use it. Maybe if you were Fatality and said change it, then maybe they would.

count up timer plz

But will it replace Q4 in the world of competitive gaming? Will it be the Million Dollar game at CPL? I think not.

This comment was edited at 01/15/2006 7:19 PM

lol #32, what are you babbling on about?

Well, I think I know what you're saying... but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Of course he's an arrogant jackass... that's why we <3 him! ;D

Tyler "digismack" Morgan - http://www.fragarcade.com

"Sure, because repeating myself 50 times is absolutely the best way to spend the time that could be going into implementing MVD or better netcode instead"

Jerk, by explaining it to a mass media you may get less questions about it, thus having to repeat yourself so often.

It might be a Tumour, IT'S NOT A TUMOUR!!

I'm a CS player, I own q4 and play q4max a lot, but I don�t know anyone in the quake community really. From reading the q4max forums and this interview, I can honestly say that my impression of arQon is that he is a controlling person who overly enjoys the whole timer issue.

Presented with a legit chance to tell a larger community why you don�t want to do it (in this interview) and instead you mock everyone once again. Your reason for not putting it in is TDM pubs cause people have to be on the same page. How can that be something you can't overcome, with a server setting for TDM to make a team the same, especially since you are talking about "doing really incredible stuff" in the future.

This is obviously something that enough people want, you SHOULD pay attention to it, and stop abusing people online with your arrogant tone. Honestly, I don�t play competitively but if I did I would hate you.

#20 timothyd
the problem is, somebody might say "mh @ 10" meaning it will spawn at xx:10. If everybody is running a different clock, the message doesn't make sense anymore.
------
Seriously, this argument is so stupid its not funny. It has a meaning, because any team worth a damn will have a status quo timer setting. If the team cant agree on 1 timer setting for everyone, then they have more issues with leadership and co-operation than with anything else.

www.modus-operandi.com.au

#38 Then when you changed teams you'd have a 50% chance you'd need to get used to a new timer type, and if you were playing a pub tdm/scrim you'd be screwed because each player would be using its team's own timer type. Yeah, stupid argument, uh.

Oh, and I'd suggest you looking for the meaning of "status quo" on a dictionary as you're using it out of context. Hint: it's not a synonym to "standard".

#39, your support for not allowing us to choose which clock we want baffles my mind to no end. This is a competatition mod yes? Produced to add onto quake, for competitions which are obviously primarily taking place in the 1/1 realm. With that in mind, whats the big deal about changing the clock, especially if you're dedicating the entirety of your sparetime to modding the game (as is arQon obviously).

I mean honestly guys, if there is a person/group of people putting countless hours into modding quake - they could atleats listen to the largest outcries of the community and not respond to them with an endlessly mocking/taunting tone.

Words can not express how much arQon successfully gets under my skin with his obviously enjoyment of the power this clock issue gives him....truly pathetic.

#39 - If you couldnt accept the timer settings in your team you probably would be changing teams a lot. TDM Pub's & Pug's.. why should they, in any way, influence the way a competition / team / proper teams practices would be played?

Does pub CS / pug CS affect how competition CS is played? Practice games with random players should not be a factor in the decision..

Also, dictionary.com defines Status Quo as "The existing condition or state of affairs." - such as the exsisting timer setting in a team. Obviously there would be no "standard" timer setting, only the setting which a team decided to use.

#30, "maybe if you were fatal1ty and said something then maybe they would change it"

cha0ticz, destrukt and daler are all on the same post on the q4max forums (http://www.q4max.com/forums/viewtopic.ph.. asking arQon to change the timer. Instead of explaining his reasoning and answering them he responds:

"I'm tolerating this particular thread just because I'm in a good mood and I feel like encouraging people to think. My decision on features IS final however, and as a rule we WILL happily delete threads (and if we have to, ban users) that insist on ignoring the "no means no" warning and wasting everybody's time."

How can a man who is the self proclaimed father of the quake community, a man who is supposed to be working hand in hand with the worlds largest gaming competitions to improve the game going to mock and threaten top gamers over a simple timer, even before he would give an explanation for his actions.

If someone were to take this behavior into any professional arena they would be fired immediately. Imagine telling a co-worker that you were refusing to do something, but instead of explaining why just laugh at them using a mocking tone.

I really just want to know why the lead programmer of the main competition mod for quake 4 is dumping on people in his forums. How is that helping the community?

Oh � and give me the damn timer already :P

Gotfrag should interview CHAMPi, the man behind xBattle. xBattle isn't getting much focus anymore since CPL isn't using it, but I see a large probability that xBattle will turn out to be better than q4max.

Also, arQon bad mouths xBattle calling them a gimmicks mod....The reason the teams didn't merge is because arQon wanted them to just code while he makes all the decisions. In other words, it would be the xBattle team doing whatever arQon wants. Of course, the xBattle team didn't want to do that, so they didn't merge. This isn't the story arQon wants to give out. Not to mention, calling xBattle a gimmicks mod and claiming their mod is instable while q4max is 'rock solid' is far from the truth on both accounts. xBattle has problems just like q4max. Go join a q4max pub, itll crash every other tourney. I bet that doesnt happen w/ xbattle! Tired of rocket smoke? xBattle allows you to turn it off as well as other features to improve FPS.

I may seem like I'm tooting xBattle's horn for no reason, but my impressions of xBattle seems to be "we are out here to make quake 4 fun and good for the community" while q4max seems to be "we are out here to do what arQon thinks is right."

Lastly, xBattle is currently working on a count down timer. Peace.

virtually every team with half a brain would use a timer counting up. that argument about how half the team could have a timer counting up and down is crap. like a previous post said, if your team cant agree on that then you have bigger problems to worry about then someone interpreting mh @ 10 wrong. hopefully one day q4max will have some sort of bluebug issue that makes it fall from the competition scene and hopefully a more open team will replace it (maybe xbattle would be nice)

This comment was edited at 01/19/2006 11:44 PM

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Quake: 13 Questions with arQon

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