The TF2.Gather.US network would like your input. Over the next few weeks, we will be making changes in the hopes to better our services to you. Here is your chance to tell us what you dislike and like about the IRC gather channel. To get the thoughts flowing I'll tell you, we are already in the midst of upgrading our servers, toying with the idea of implementing a randomized medic assignment to each game, and perhaps changing our bot options. So if you have any thoughts on these items (and others), please, tell us how can we better ourselves. This is all in the hopes to keep our game alive and thriving, so please, don't be too harsh. Thanks! :>
there should be an option granting non-admins the ability to start up a pug when admins aren't readily available.
there should be a website or perhaps a MOTD clearly listing the rules and regulations of participating in a gather (i.e. 1d ban for those that sign up and leave halfway through, and for those that choose to purposefully disrupt gathers)
tftrue should be implemented in all gather servers to keep up to date with current league settings.
perhaps if someone is willing to volunteer to code this: a ranking system of overall gathers played and perhaps a stats/skill card for each player registered. (not just the !stats command in the channel. it is simple and only keeps track of weekly gathers)
periodical events (perhaps bi-weekly or monthly) that promote the #tf2.gather.us system and to keep everyone interested in participation.
yeah make it so the bot assigns medics, put tftrue on all but one of the servers and add an option to vote tftrue off (thus assigning the non tftrue server) in the irc channel like with voting map but make the vote to chaneg be more than half
also find a way to stop every pug from turning into a big joke and waste of time once one team realizes theyre probably gonna lose
My only concern with your thought #5 is people will just refuse to medic. I know often times those games don't fill because of that. Getting a quick game in as medic (at random) and then playing in another gather is always better than the repercussion of getting banned for refusing to stick to that rule, if put in effect.
Could you make the random medic admin specified? I think it'd be good as a "default" option but really, it could develop into more of a problem than a solution if people try to force others who are TERRIBLE medics into doing it because the dice said so.
Honestly, we just need much tighter control of the games by admins. No amount of automation will be as good as a decent admin who will take the time to do a pug right. That's why CBs group has had such success here lately: they keep really tight control of their games. I've been making a habit of a) not playing Gravelpit and b) banning people who don't try or are otherwise poor sports. These two things start making gathers more fun pretty quick and if you run several of them in a row this way, people start catching on.
One thing I think would really help improve the level of play in pugs is stats. You'd be amazed at how big of stat-hoars (sic) people can be if given the chance. Stats should be kept on a weekly and long-term basis. I think if we had that worked out people would be much less inclined to f*ck-off in pugs - this would also allow for the system to form teams based on skill level.
And Hell, since I'm already well into wishful thinking, why not get away from irc bots altogether? Do it all in ajax, in browser, so it's accessible and you get the advertising revenue to help maintain the servers? That'd open up competitive play to mainstream TF2 players and give you a convenient way to have player profiles, etc.
think u shud ask some popular servers to advertise the gather channel like iO or in other places so we can get more people used to the competitive community
gathers are stupid, its almost always a steamroll one way or the other and after the first round or two the losing team (and sometimes the winning team too) starts playing retarded classes and then it falls apart
Don't do random medics, either let people add up as med or leave it as is. From my perspective, I'm more than willing to admit when there's better soldiers/demos than me, and I'll gladly medic for my team if it has a few good players on it. But holy shit, nothing sucks more than medicing on a team where the soldiers and demos are complete retards that abandon you at gravelpit B to go chase everyone at an already half-capped A.
If you randomly assign medics, I feel like that sort of thing would happen a lot more frequently, whereas right now, what usually happens is the best players get first pick for classes. Oh hell, why not do something like that, where you let people pick classes according to ranking/skill/number of gathers played or similar? =)
@Copulatingduck: "No. You're working at Initech 'cause that question is bullsh*t to begin with. If everyone listened to her, there'd be no janitors because no one would clean sh*t up if they had a million dollars." Office Space quote pulled out because if you give good players a choice of what they're going to play and then entitle them to do it, noobs won't want to play gathers. It's best to let social forces work that sh*t out, like they already do. I do think a class limit so people can't refuse to switch classes after they got on the class after someone else would be a good idea, but again, good admins solve this.
I wish there were some way to queue up when a gather hasn't started yet. Rather than staring at your IRC client waiting for some admin to start a game (or begging one to start one) and frantically typing !add before everyone else, let people queue up and automatically add them to the roster when an admin starts a game. And to prevent AFKers from taking up a roster slot, require queued up people to use some command to confirm their presence or they get booted off within say 20 seconds of the gather starting.
So for example:
!queue *queues up player for next game*
[Admin starts game] *player gets added automatically to roster, no need to type !add*
!confirm *player types this command within 20 seconds or gets booted off the roster*
add class restrictions to server so first in server get to play desired class and everybody has an equal chance at playing fave classes (medic excluded as they are determined pre-gather)
Down to business. You might want to check out the namesake of your channel in its original environment. Join in irc.quakenet.org #kgather This is still linked to etf i believe, but the bot is whats important. Talk to Helios. He is a very good guy and should be able to help you out with the programming of the medic. My issue with the programming of a medic is some tard will get chosen and he'll play awful on purpose. This system programs the server to switch to a certain map and exec configs for it. That is another thing to talk to Helios about. The bot basically does all the work and there is no real need of an admin to police. Have a general group of trusted people (admins) that play a lot of gathers at whatever times (which already happens) and they only police the disruptors.
Hope this wasnt discussed already, i doubt it since very few in etf played over in europe to have such a good system.
Another thing of quality about the euro scene is there is a far smaller amount of shitbags and ego driven players. In ETF it was either get better or quit. In TF2 its either get better or make the game horrible for everyone else.
Maybe start banning the useless trash and bring in more potential. I like #15's suggestion about having some pub servers advertise. Cant hurt the community. But bringing in pubbies like that will only lower the skill of the gathers even more since 95% arent used to quality players like #1.
I just noticed DL suggest what I'm suggesting. Props DL. I just had to link up the information for some research. I also went to the channel and spoke with Helios but he was afk.
medic slots you can add up to tftrue vote option in game to extend the timelimit for those particular fun/even gathers class limits server stats more ops
I agree with the queue idea, but in practice there will be a ton of idle people in pugs if this is implemented. Instead add a bot command: !notify - notifies the user by pm when a new game starts up. This way they'll get the beep to let them know when a gather starts up, only if they want to.
#33 well, if you have everyone in the queue to have the ability to 'ready up' it shouldn't be a problem.
Say there's 100 people in the queue and numbers 1 through 50 are idle, and everyone else confirms their present, then those people get to play while the earlier queued up people get kicked off the roster and off the queue as well.
I like the UK medic system, 10 people !add up but the game won't start till 2 people add up with !medic
edit: Actually just get the entire UK system and use that. It's automatically run without any admins, automatically starting pugs and changing the map to the most voted map. It's pretty much amazing.
Is there a particular reason why we can't use the actual euro system, other than our own pride? If they'll let us I don't see why not. Seems like the easiest and fastest solution.
A command to reshuffle teams would be nice, or some way to vote or have admin reshuffle bad teams. I don't know about any of the other bots, so sorry if the euro/UK bot already has this kind of stuff.
#37, Europeans get better healthcare, better schools, more vacations, better childcare... but because it's Europe, we pretty much will never adopt anything they do.
Oh and the UK bot sounds amazing. Good going AmeriKKKa
I like the idea of implementing tftrue as well as not starting the gather before two people have signed on as medic. As for the quality of the gathers, that will not improve until idiots and trolls are banned quickly and for long periods of time. Having new/improving players is fine, pugs are there so you can get better. Having 12 year old griefers and no one willing to play medic is not fine. The pugs run by cbear/CB on CBs server are the best I've played in because idiots get banned immediately and permanently.
Bring back the beeping alert too, it actually brought people into games. Also, thanks maxf for trying to improve the gathers.
Advertising to pubs (encouraging messages such as, "you think you're good? " blah) will bring in more potential, more players and overall aid the tf2 community getting bigger
But like was mentioned, the skill level of the overall pugs will go down, we could always mitigate this problem by emulating the other component of euro gathers, invite gathers.
Even though we do technically have an invite pug system in place, the main gather channel isn't quite active enough to warrant using it. Catering to pubbies will make regular gathers more active and give some use to our invite pug system, also give players something to look forward to in getting better and getting invited to that level.
First i dont think automation is needed..to run gathers. i like the !queue idea it would help know if admins should start a gather... the next thing that needs to be changed is the add system. it should be setup so 10 people !add and 2 more !add medic so that the gather has not started until someone !add medic. This would solve the medic problem so we dont have to force people to play it...and if they didnt play med eventho they !add medic they would be banned. Tftrue is a must. and forcing class limits are a must.... the whole problem with noobs playing. people are going to have to live with. The community will get bigger but we are more accepting and help these lamers...for all you amazing players just get invited to #tf2-invite and pug there.
I'd like to second what g0at said. I for one am totally cool having the overall skill level of gathers go down temporarily if it means we get new people into this game that are interested in learning how to play well. I think there are a lot of pubstars out there that would actually do just fine (as well as a lot of the current people that play gathers) after a few games, especially if they have some helpful teammates in those gathers to give them pointers on teamwork and what their role should be. In the long run, the ones that stick around will become better, bringing the gather skill level back up to where it was before. It's like that money your grandparents stashed away for your college education when you were a baby, only this time you won't blow it all on alcohol during said college education.... and it's not money, but people... and, well, I'm done.
Honestly at this point it's more important to grow the community than it is to refine its skill level. A large community of pub stars and 6v6 newbies can get better with practice, but a small community of superpros probably won't get any bigger. TF2 still has an enormous community of pubbers to draw from, we just need to encourage them to get off their orange servers and stop playing engineer. Gathers should definitely be advertised more to the larger TF2 community.
I've read a lot of good ideas here and I just wanted to add some of my own and build on some of them.
One idea that I saw was the captain system. I think that this could be an interesting/fun way to do gathers. I don't know if this is possible, but have the bot randomnly choose 2 captains, and then have them choose.
I also like the idea of having TFTrue implemented into most/all of the servers, and then the option to play with or without it, and now that CEVO is running this, I feel that it definitely should be implemented.
I don't think that the random medic will work well. I think that we do now with the last in is medic works well. You may hear groan's and complaints, but it's usually not a big deal.
I think that if we promote the channel more, than it will be beneficial to us all. Gathers are, imo, by far the best way to get better competitively, and I think that if we were to do something like w1rex said and do some sort of bi-weekly or monthly event to promote it, that it would help.
I also would like to see some sort of way for non-admins to start games. If we were to bring in the bot that does everything for us, then I don't see why this could not be achieved.
I also think that some sort of notification system would be helpful.
I hate it when you've been waiting in the gather for the 6th to come and they're extremely late. Then they come in and try to force you off of your class when you've been waiting and were prompt
I agree that the medic slot thing works well so why not just get it all sorted out before the game ever starts so there is no more whining about classes in game.
The TF2.Gather.US network...
The TF2.Gather.US network would like your input. Over the next few weeks, we will be making changes in the hopes to better our services to you. Here is your chance to tell us what you dislike and like about the IRC gather channel. To get the thoughts flowing I'll tell you, we are already in the midst of upgrading our servers, toying with the idea of implementing a randomized medic assignment to each game, and perhaps changing our bot options. So if you have any thoughts on these items (and others), please, tell us how can we better ourselves. This is all in the hopes to keep our game alive and thriving, so please, don't be too harsh. Thanks! :>
Yours,
maxf and the TF2.Gather.US team
there should be a website or perhaps a MOTD clearly listing the rules and regulations of participating in a gather (i.e. 1d ban for those that sign up and leave halfway through, and for those that choose to purposefully disrupt gathers)
tftrue should be implemented in all gather servers to keep up to date with current league settings.
perhaps if someone is willing to volunteer to code this: a ranking system of overall gathers played and perhaps a stats/skill card for each player registered. (not just the !stats command in the channel. it is simple and only keeps track of weekly gathers)
periodical events (perhaps bi-weekly or monthly) that promote the #tf2.gather.us system and to keep everyone interested in participation.
<3
aka dorkstick, freewilly, and all there boyfriends.
i like implementing medic
also find a way to stop every pug from turning into a big joke and waste of time once one team realizes theyre probably gonna lose
Don't do random medic, thats how Aus pugs do it and their pugs suck.
-Put class limits on the server. This will stop people fighting over classes.
We used to have the system of last 2 in to the server go medic
that worked well, but for some reason we now use randomized medic as #9 pointed out
Honestly, we just need much tighter control of the games by admins. No amount of automation will be as good as a decent admin who will take the time to do a pug right. That's why CBs group has had such success here lately: they keep really tight control of their games. I've been making a habit of a) not playing Gravelpit and b) banning people who don't try or are otherwise poor sports. These two things start making gathers more fun pretty quick and if you run several of them in a row this way, people start catching on.
One thing I think would really help improve the level of play in pugs is stats. You'd be amazed at how big of stat-hoars (sic) people can be if given the chance. Stats should be kept on a weekly and long-term basis. I think if we had that worked out people would be much less inclined to f*ck-off in pugs - this would also allow for the system to form teams based on skill level.
And Hell, since I'm already well into wishful thinking, why not get away from irc bots altogether? Do it all in ajax, in browser, so it's accessible and you get the advertising revenue to help maintain the servers? That'd open up competitive play to mainstream TF2 players and give you a convenient way to have player profiles, etc.
If you randomly assign medics, I feel like that sort of thing would happen a lot more frequently, whereas right now, what usually happens is the best players get first pick for classes. Oh hell, why not do something like that, where you let people pick classes according to ranking/skill/number of gathers played or similar? =)
So for example:
!queue *queues up player for next game*
[Admin starts game] *player gets added automatically to roster, no need to type !add*
!confirm *player types this command within 20 seconds or gets booted off the roster*
add class restrictions to server so first in server get to play desired class and everybody has an equal chance at playing fave classes (medic excluded as they are determined pre-gather)
Down to business. You might want to check out the namesake of your channel in its original environment. Join in irc.quakenet.org #kgather
This is still linked to etf i believe, but the bot is whats important. Talk to Helios. He is a very good guy and should be able to help you out with the programming of the medic. My issue with the programming of a medic is some tard will get chosen and he'll play awful on purpose. This system programs the server to switch to a certain map and exec configs for it. That is another thing to talk to Helios about. The bot basically does all the work and there is no real need of an admin to police. Have a general group of trusted people (admins) that play a lot of gathers at whatever times (which already happens) and they only police the disruptors.
Hope this wasnt discussed already, i doubt it since very few in etf played over in europe to have such a good system.
gl on the updates to the gather system in us tf2
hein
Maybe start banning the useless trash and bring in more potential. I like #15's suggestion about having some pub servers advertise. Cant hurt the community. But bringing in pubbies like that will only lower the skill of the gathers even more since 95% arent used to quality players like #1.
I just noticed DL suggest what I'm suggesting. Props DL. I just had to link up the information for some research. I also went to the channel and spoke with Helios but he was afk.
gg
hein
tftrue
vote option in game to extend the timelimit for those particular fun/even gathers
class limits
server stats
more ops
I think the rest is just an issue with the community.
But more importantly,ban virulent.
i agree with the idea about voting to start a game up
and @20 i lol'd
Say there's 100 people in the queue and numbers 1 through 50 are idle, and everyone else confirms their present, then those people get to play while the earlier queued up people get kicked off the roster and off the queue as well.
edit: Actually just get the entire UK system and use that. It's automatically run without any admins, automatically starting pugs and changing the map to the most voted map. It's pretty much amazing.
Oh and the UK bot sounds amazing. Good going AmeriKKKa
Bring back the beeping alert too, it actually brought people into games. Also, thanks maxf for trying to improve the gathers.
will bring in more potential, more players and overall aid the tf2 community getting bigger
But like was mentioned, the skill level of the overall pugs will go down, we could always mitigate this problem by emulating the other component of euro gathers, invite gathers.
Even though we do technically have an invite pug system in place, the main gather channel isn't quite active enough to warrant using it. Catering to pubbies will make regular gathers more active and give some use to our invite pug system, also give players something to look forward to in getting better and getting invited to that level.
I dunno, just throwing some things out there.
nerdrager
One idea that I saw was the captain system. I think that this could be an interesting/fun way to do gathers. I don't know if this is possible, but have the bot randomnly choose 2 captains, and then have them choose.
I also like the idea of having TFTrue implemented into most/all of the servers, and then the option to play with or without it, and now that CEVO is running this, I feel that it definitely should be implemented.
I don't think that the random medic will work well. I think that we do now with the last in is medic works well. You may hear groan's and complaints, but it's usually not a big deal.
I think that if we promote the channel more, than it will be beneficial to us all. Gathers are, imo, by far the best way to get better competitively, and I think that if we were to do something like w1rex said and do some sort of bi-weekly or monthly event to promote it, that it would help.
I also would like to see some sort of way for non-admins to start games. If we were to bring in the bot that does everything for us, then I don't see why this could not be achieved.
I also think that some sort of notification system would be helpful.
I hate it when you've been waiting in the gather for the 6th to come and they're extremely late. Then they come in and try to force you off of your class when you've been waiting and were prompt
!medic (2 slots)
!soldier (4 slots)
!scout (4 slots)
!demo (2 slots)
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