Ok so after doing two payload maps (hoodoo and halfacre) I'm making a three point gravelpit style map in collaboration with someone else and I know that the competative community is itching for a good gravelpit style custom and someone recommended getting feedback from this forum.
So if any of you can try out this map whilst its still very early in development and provide feedback on it's layout and gameplay that would be awesome. I make sure layout is good before detailing so I can make changes easily without wasting loads of work so it's still pretty much all dev textures, but don't let that put you off!
* Adjusted spawn timers slightly to aid balance * Upped capture times to aid defensability. * Moved red spawn slightly further backwards. * Added glass into windows at one entrance to C from A * Added cover to one entrance to C from B
Not the map creator, but I'd equally appreciate the competitive community running the map for a few pugs or scrims or something to gauge balance and respawn times.
Yeah, we played this map last night. We didn't get an extensive playtest on it, so I couldn't see exactly what needed improvement, but overall it was a good map :)
just looked over it and it looks very good. might want to make the a to b connector a bit bigger and allow people on the A roof. other than that its great. gonna scrim it later to see how it plays.
#6, if you can provide any kind of demo during your scrim (an HLTV demo would be best, but player demos are fine too) and upload it here, that would be tremendously helpful to finding gameplay bugs.
Not much to say other than thanks to everyone who has playtested so far, shown support and provided feedback, this process is impossible without all of you. The filesize has stayed low fortunately, its not even 50MB and if you're using a redirect with .BZ2 files it's only ~20MB
It's been brought to my attention that for comp play point per cap is required and I thought i had that but it seems I don't. Give it another few hours and I'll have a new version with that up, trust me to get something wrong...doh!
I just ran around in it and it looks like a great map. One thing I'd suggest is putting playerclip along stairs so that it's a smooth wedge instead of jagged steps. Valve did this for badlands, and it doesn't seem like it's been done in many other maps. It makes for a smoother ride up stairs, and I would greatly appreciate it good sir.
I just had a run through it and it seems like it will be good, but I found a few things that you'd probably want to fix.
You can see glitches jumping onto a lot of the lightposts in the canyons, and a few of the tunnels could use better clipping. You can also get stuck on the metal barriers at point C as well as the doorways leading up to the point, which I can see being extremely annoying in play. I have screenshots of problem areas if you'd like to see them.
It also seemed like the skybox was a bit low at B and C, and C feels like it's a bit too small. You can spam the the RED spawn pretty hard from the closer entrances. However, I'll wait until I've played it a few times before I complain more concretely about those.
Map is looking pretty. Visually it seems like the C tower is a bit bland, it just looks like a straight shaft into the air with nothing really going on. Not bad if you like shafts I guess.
From a general point of view (and I know I hate generalities too, so I would take it with a grain of salt) it seems like every connector into C is very very narrow which seems like it would limit gameplay possibilities. If you look at Gravel's connectors they at least have some wiggle room, but literally every one of the connectors in this map is very limiting in terms of play space. I don't know exactly how spammable each is by itself, but the smallness of them seems like it could lead to some frustrating moments.
It also seems like A's yard is a bit busy. It might be a little better with 1 or 2 less rocks, though I didn't specifically look at which lane each was blocking. If each one is really necessary there may be a deeper issue with the placement of blue's attack exits (in particular it looked like one was very close to the actual CP's building).
Again, these are just first impressions and I haven't actually seen anything on the map yet.
<3 the stairs now! I noticed on the B roof that there's some playerclip along the wall where the wood windows are. I imagine this is because you don't want players accidentally colliding with the windows, but I think the better solution would be to make the windows 'not solid' and take away the playerclip. As it stands now it's very strange having 16 or so units of invisible collision where you think you can walk. If you do make the windows not solid, you might also want to put some blockbullets along the sides where the window's collision would be for proper collision of pipes being shot through.
I think the little bit of corrugated metal on top of the small building at A should be 'not solid' as well. It could interfere with movement in some situations. There's also a piece inside of the main A building leaning against the wall that interferes with movement if you go flush along with the wall. Because this piece of metal serves nothing other than aesthetics (you can't jump on top of it anyway) I'd suggest also making it passable.
Just played a community pug on it ... everyone liked it, and I think the only complaints were more about the connectors than anything else. Most of them had no signage as to what point they'd take you to, and they're very claustrophobic. It makes them pretty easy to lock down with a sniper, and there's no room to dodge spam. You may want to try duplicating the concrete connectors from GPit ... gives a bit more maneuver room, and breaks up the "eveything is rocks" aesthetic a little.
Other than that, I think you've got a winner... looking forward to future releases.
I agree remove well, havent played yukon enough to judge it.
But seriously, Well is awful, it is bland, boring and repetitive, the only reason its played is because it "works" competitively, but every single aspect of gameplay on the map (especially losing mid and holding second) has become monotonous and a chore to play.
The connectors are too small, you've probably gotten that message by now.
<3 the transparent wiring around the offense spawn doors.
I don't think the A yard is necessarily a problem, but I agree it could be simplified without any loss. I suspect vile is right and there's an issue with the rightmost exit being too close (from red's pov). That you can make it from here
Pros: "I liked furnace creek a lot. It ran like gpit except C is easier to attack, and B and A are pretty evenly defendable." This was the general consensus after playing for 2 games of 2 round each. Plays great, has unique look to it. Cons: The exit from both spawns allow teams to see through so you can easily see when to det your stickies and get a quick 3 kills. While sniping, I noticed how easy it was for a soldier or demo to jump right up where I was w.o me seeing him b/c well, he was jumping over me. Possibly adding a roof to aid the offense might be better. I noticed it was also much easier to kill medic combos while they are up there. Once you're up there, spam = easy kills. Improvements: Add a roof or something to the 'tunnels' for offense. Add a med HP to both A and B. There are 3 tiny ones at B, at strange spots. I *think A has a med one but it favors attackers, not defenders in its placement out the right tunnel to A. Notes: Some complained about the sun's glare being too bright, I didn't notice the problem myself, thought it looked great. Here is a STV, hope you find it useful.
The only reason why b4 hasn't been released yet is because the mapper(s) have had no feedback as to what needs to be changed. I've heard a lot of rumbling that they don't care, but I've been talking to one of them lately and he just wants to know what he can do.
Has anyone here legitimately played a scrim on furnace_b3? If not, you should.
aww yes, I played this map. It was a fun map for me when I was a scout.. the only problem I kinda felt and noticed was the space to move around with. but all in all, its a fun map to play on
Spawn times do not need to be longer. B2 showed a 52/48 win balance in favor of BLU, and B3 had no major layout changes. I think the map is balanced with the current spawn times (unless I see some actual justification for why the spawn times need to be changed).
I'm not trying to come off as arrogant or uninterested in feedback, but it seems all I hear now is "increase red spawn times", when that'll just make it a steamroll for BLU.
I played a pug on this last night in which on defense I suicided onto A to kill a few who were capping. I then spawned in 3 seconds and did it again. Both red and blue, especially red, spawn a bit quick but it's hard to say if that actually effects who wins or just makes the game faster paced.
Currently the spawn times are the same as Gravelpit. Currently, it is much easier to get onto point C from spawn than it is on Gravelpit, and the walks to A & B are very similar in length. That was the mappers' reasoning.
To say that the map should be stacked against Red to begin with is just going to hurt the map's normal audience... While we'd all like to see another Gravelpit-style map, the one thing that makes A/D maps so exciting is the race against time, and making it too easy for Blu from the start will make it a throwaway round for Red. If it's just a race against time and Red doesn't actually have a chance of winning, dumb shat will ensue. One thing you never see on Gravelpit is people just making rushes at CPs with 5 people on them. I'm afraid if you made it just Blu rushing to cap while Red sits twiddling their thumbs waiting to respawn, you'll find that defensive players will react by doing whatever is most efficient to win, which won't involve normal 6v6 gameplay or tactics.
Also, it's not trying to be exactly like Gravelpit. It just borrowed GP's timers to have it feel similar, but the map itself adds a different spin, and that's why it should be played.
A map does have to be stacked towards BLU enough that they can actually eventually win. It should, however, get progressively harder to get the next cap point (first cap is suppose to be easiest/giveaway, then next cap they have to focus to take with red distance to regain ground and the ability to close in from C, spawn, or connector, and the last point needs very good coordination to take).
cp_furnace - gravelpit style
Ok so after doing two payload maps (hoodoo and halfacre) I'm making a three point gravelpit style map in collaboration with someone else and I know that the competative community is itching for a good gravelpit style custom and someone recommended getting feedback from this forum.
So if any of you can try out this map whilst its still very early in development and provide feedback on it's layout and gameplay that would be awesome. I make sure layout is good before detailing so I can make changes easily without wasting loads of work so it's still pretty much all dev textures, but don't let that put you off!
Thanks :)
Updates:
http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?d..
Alpha 3 changelog:
* Adjusted spawn timers slightly to aid balance
* Upped capture times to aid defensability.
* Moved red spawn slightly further backwards.
* Added glass into windows at one entrance to C from A
* Added cover to one entrance to C from B
Not the map creator, but I'd equally appreciate the competitive community running the map for a few pugs or scrims or something to gauge balance and respawn times.
EDIT: Wow, sticky! Thanks a lot!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28746141@N08..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28746141@N08..
Maybe 2 weeks until beta 1... roughly, can't give an accurate estimate yet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzaByCva0I..
Shouldn't be too long before I can roll out _b1, I'll keep you all up to date!
beta out; someone put it on the Gather servers quick because it's awesome.
Map download:
http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?d..
http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/94628
Not much to say other than thanks to everyone who has playtested so far, shown support and provided feedback, this process is impossible without all of you.
The filesize has stayed low fortunately, its not even 50MB and if you're using a redirect with .BZ2 files it's only ~20MB
Also, Nineaxis made this, for kicks - http://furnace.tf2maps.net
This map is amazing btw
I've been looking forward to playing this :3
You can see glitches jumping onto a lot of the lightposts in the canyons, and a few of the tunnels could use better clipping. You can also get stuck on the metal barriers at point C as well as the doorways leading up to the point, which I can see being extremely annoying in play. I have screenshots of problem areas if you'd like to see them.
It also seemed like the skybox was a bit low at B and C, and C feels like it's a bit too small. You can spam the the RED spawn pretty hard from the closer entrances. However, I'll wait until I've played it a few times before I complain more concretely about those.
From a general point of view (and I know I hate generalities too, so I would take it with a grain of salt) it seems like every connector into C is very very narrow which seems like it would limit gameplay possibilities. If you look at Gravel's connectors they at least have some wiggle room, but literally every one of the connectors in this map is very limiting in terms of play space. I don't know exactly how spammable each is by itself, but the smallness of them seems like it could lead to some frustrating moments.
It also seems like A's yard is a bit busy. It might be a little better with 1 or 2 less rocks, though I didn't specifically look at which lane each was blocking. If each one is really necessary there may be a deeper issue with the placement of blue's attack exits (in particular it looked like one was very close to the actual CP's building).
Again, these are just first impressions and I haven't actually seen anything on the map yet.
I noticed on the B roof that there's some playerclip along the wall where the wood windows are. I imagine this is because you don't want players accidentally colliding with the windows, but I think the better solution would be to make the windows 'not solid' and take away the playerclip. As it stands now it's very strange having 16 or so units of invisible collision where you think you can walk. If you do make the windows not solid, you might also want to put some blockbullets along the sides where the window's collision would be for proper collision of pipes being shot through.
I think the little bit of corrugated metal on top of the small building at A should be 'not solid' as well. It could interfere with movement in some situations. There's also a piece inside of the main A building leaning against the wall that interferes with movement if you go flush along with the wall. Because this piece of metal serves nothing other than aesthetics (you can't jump on top of it anyway) I'd suggest also making it passable.
Other than that, I think you've got a winner... looking forward to future releases.
But seriously, Well is awful, it is bland, boring and repetitive, the only reason its played is because it "works" competitively, but every single aspect of gameplay on the map (especially losing mid and holding second) has become monotonous and a chore to play.
ps. this map looks great.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/Un..
The connectors are too small, you've probably gotten that message by now.
<3 the transparent wiring around the offense spawn doors.
I don't think the A yard is necessarily a problem, but I agree it could be simplified without any loss. I suspect vile is right and there's an issue with the rightmost exit being too close (from red's pov). That you can make it from here
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/Un..
to the point in one jump is probably an indicator you need more distance.
I love this map by the way...
EDIT: agr with #30
Pros: "I liked furnace creek a lot. It ran like gpit except C is easier to attack, and B and A are pretty evenly defendable." This was the general consensus after playing for 2 games of 2 round each. Plays great, has unique look to it.
Cons: The exit from both spawns allow teams to see through so you can easily see when to det your stickies and get a quick 3 kills. While sniping, I noticed how easy it was for a soldier or demo to jump right up where I was w.o me seeing him b/c well, he was jumping over me. Possibly adding a roof to aid the offense might be better. I noticed it was also much easier to kill medic combos while they are up there. Once you're up there, spam = easy kills.
Improvements: Add a roof or something to the 'tunnels' for offense. Add a med HP to both A and B. There are 3 tiny ones at B, at strange spots. I *think A has a med one but it favors attackers, not defenders in its placement out the right tunnel to A.
Notes: Some complained about the sun's glare being too bright, I didn't notice the problem myself, thought it looked great. Here is a STV, hope you find it useful.
http://tf2f.sishgupta.com/tf/demos/auto-2..
cp_furnace_b3 is out! Playerclips fixed, light levels increased, point C tower lowered & cap times reduced, etc etc.
Has anyone here legitimately played a scrim on furnace_b3? If not, you should.
I'm not trying to come off as arrogant or uninterested in feedback, but it seems all I hear now is "increase red spawn times", when that'll just make it a steamroll for BLU.
To say that the map should be stacked against Red to begin with is just going to hurt the map's normal audience... While we'd all like to see another Gravelpit-style map, the one thing that makes A/D maps so exciting is the race against time, and making it too easy for Blu from the start will make it a throwaway round for Red. If it's just a race against time and Red doesn't actually have a chance of winning, dumb shat will ensue. One thing you never see on Gravelpit is people just making rushes at CPs with 5 people on them. I'm afraid if you made it just Blu rushing to cap while Red sits twiddling their thumbs waiting to respawn, you'll find that defensive players will react by doing whatever is most efficient to win, which won't involve normal 6v6 gameplay or tactics.
Also, it's not trying to be exactly like Gravelpit. It just borrowed GP's timers to have it feel similar, but the map itself adds a different spin, and that's why it should be played.
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