Since ETF2L's 5CP map contest we've seen a lot of custom maps struggling for recognition, so I figured that I'd throw another, one of my favorites, into the ring early in its development cycle. Here's hoping that you guys will actually download and try this one out!
QUOTE:Like the ingredients of a fine soup, bits of intelligence from all over the world gather here on Cauldron Island, simmering in the tropical heat as mad schemes of world domination are cooked up.
The island's two resident forces are no longer content to share such prime real estate, however, and their gluttony for valuable information has led to a bitter conflict as each tries to toss out the other like yesterday's slop.
CP_Cauldron is a 5 control point push map with mirror symmetry. The final points are on the outer cliffs of the island. Points 2/4 are at the core of each side's data center. The middle point is on the radar deck overlooking the island's central caldera lake.
Right now, I'm mostly looking for feedback on layout, class balance, and signage.
Every time I've played this map with non-competitive players it's ended with a lot of confused players who haven't understood the layout. My hope is that you guys will take this map (mind you it's still in Alpha), and take the time to learn it so that Shmitz could get some real feedback on it. He hasn't truly designed it with competitive play in mind, but I've told him from the beginning how perfect it was.
You really need to download this and run through it. What initially seems a confusing layout actually has some great potential, and keeps 3 integrated throughout the entire battle. 3 is rather open but allows for some neat height options on top of the satellite, as well as tossing people off the ledge with pushback and clever juggles.
The last point has an incredible feel to it as you can assault from under and both sides of the point, while having to watch out for the ledge along which you battle.
What would not be useful is to disregard the map after one playthrough for it being 'confusing' or too open at the middle; the interiors are actually more simple than badlands' last, and the open middle allows for some insane demo and soldier jumps onto the enemy medic, while still having options for getting inside where it might be safer.
Even though I forgot to update it when alpha six came out, I'm a bit disappointed no one has played this yet!
It really does play better than most other 5CPs, and it approaches the gameplay of Blands & Gaynary in tactical choices. It reminds me a lot of Granary around the last points but the middle is truly unique, and its paths are incredibly important because their use for back-caps is vital to a team.
The tactics used here are unlike any other 5CP out there, and just think what an advantage it would be to get in and learn this map before it becomes big. It's still in development and playing the map (and giving Shmitz or I the demos) helps both you and the mapper.
The mapper is finalizing his other project (tc_meridian) atm so right now would be a good time to test this, so he has something to work on once he releases the final of that.
Posted this on tf2maps, but thought I'd say it here too:
Love the map, love the design, and love the scale of CP3 particularly - looking forward to how it evolves. Couple things, though:
1. How attached are you to the cliffs? - I instantly see a problem arising from the fact that you can fall off a cliff and die at CP3 and CP1/5 - there's already enough irritation from the pushback effect of the Force-a-Nature, and the fact that you can get shoved right off the cliff in this map is going to be a big negative I think. They're beautiful, and great fun in a pub-setting, but for a competitive 6v6 map this is definately a con - instead of having to actually KILL someone, the scout can just FaN them off the edge, which means you're rewarding those with less effort/skill.
2. Take out the cave altogether? - The cave-route from Respawn (CP1) to CP3 is great for the race to 3, but has some definate setbacks and should probably be taken out all together. There's a great deal going on between CP2/4 & CP1/5, so you won't really miss it, and the added security for the defense is worth taking a little longer to get to CP3 in the opening moments. The problem is, once you lose CP3, that cave route instantly becomes bad thing because it's such an effective flanking route for enemy scouts, not to mention a spawn-camping demo. And offensively, it's not really a problem if you make a team work to get to CP3 by taking out their easy-access route.
These are just priliminary things I noticed, gonna try and pug over the next few days and get a better feel for the map - really, REALLY like the design though, and it's a very beautiful looking map. Thanks a bunch!
After running through the map quickly, I must say I'm very impressed. Middle looks like a fantastic battleground. When capturing, you are a sitting duck, subject to spam and getting knocked into the water. Last gives the scout a lot of cool attacking possibilities.
I'm sure first time players would get frustrated by the tunnel system, but it doesn't take too long to learn.
I wish I had more criticism, but I'll get back to you when (if) I ever PUG it.
P.S. - #8, try playing hydro in 6v6 with engie limit 0. Good times! The eternal stalemate conception of hydro is almost all based on pub play.
We played the map for 3 1/2 hours. The scoring system was completely fudged and forced you to actually win 3 rounds in a row to score a point. It was ridiculous.
I'll be honest, I really don't see a map like this making it into a league cycle or anything. Primary reason is because you can get f aggoted so easyily by one well placed rocket/sticky trap/direct pipe/FAN shot, that I see the community not wanting it. I personally think it looks pretty great, but not sure how everyone is going to take the sh|tty deaths too well. Besides that, I honestly really like the layout, looks pretty fun.
I'll be honest, the cliffs are no worse than the train on well, and you still play THAT map. Well is awful and hasn't been replaced, and if its replacement were a map where environmental deaths could be controlled and become a skill to pull off, that would be fine with me.
Honestly in practice you never get knocked off unless you stand near the edge or the enemies attempts to kill you that way. In any case, they're always better off just shooting you. You'd be surprised how well the open area around middle plays, it feels akin to the yard around Badlands 2nd in that it's perfectly well sized and has a lot of opportunity for all sorts of tactics. Even with the huge sightlines I've never seen a sniper absolutely dominate it, so I think it's just THAT well-designed.
Really, really, give this map a chance. Shmitz is a guy who would be willing to sacrifice the beauty of the cliffs if it were really an issue, but he is adamant that it's not and I tend to agree.
No, #13 - the power of the FaN can knock you off that edge even if you we'll back from the cliff. And it's not like you have total control of where you go in a spam-fest - imagine the opening moments of cp_granary or cp_badlands, except with a giant cliff beside you. I'd love to see you not fall off a couple times.
Still, it's your own fault if you fall off, or if someone FaNed you off, they would have likely still killed you if they were using the plain scattergun. TBH if someone like a medic or full health soldier got knocked off the edge I'd be very surprised. I've yet to see that happen.
Just to reassure you all that the mapper knows about this issue, I've been talking to Shmitz on Steam and we're going to go test out how high a railing would need to be to actually be effective. Like I said, if it's going to keep you all from playing the map it will be addressed right away.
Middle point should be much less prone to FaNs with that railing added, as mentioned above I helped Shmitz test it out and unless you're going for that health pack or in the air you're fine. Also, the tunnel leading to spawn has had a one way gate added to it. >_0
Uploading to the #nrpug server now, will get it a go and report - this one's a bit of a fan favourite in our little pug crowd, hope to see a finished product soon :)
cp_cauldron
Since ETF2L's 5CP map contest we've seen a lot of custom maps struggling for recognition, so I figured that I'd throw another, one of my favorites, into the ring early in its development cycle. Here's hoping that you guys will actually download and try this one out!
TF2Maps Topic - http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?..
DOWNLOAD - alpha 8 - http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?d..
Middle - http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/image..
Second/Fourth - http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/image..
First/Fifth - http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/image..
Every time I've played this map with non-competitive players it's ended with a lot of confused players who haven't understood the layout. My hope is that you guys will take this map (mind you it's still in Alpha), and take the time to learn it so that Shmitz could get some real feedback on it. He hasn't truly designed it with competitive play in mind, but I've told him from the beginning how perfect it was.
Thanks!
-FoXy
You really need to download this and run through it. What initially seems a confusing layout actually has some great potential, and keeps 3 integrated throughout the entire battle. 3 is rather open but allows for some neat height options on top of the satellite, as well as tossing people off the ledge with pushback and clever juggles.
The last point has an incredible feel to it as you can assault from under and both sides of the point, while having to watch out for the ledge along which you battle.
What would not be useful is to disregard the map after one playthrough for it being 'confusing' or too open at the middle; the interiors are actually more simple than badlands' last, and the open middle allows for some insane demo and soldier jumps onto the enemy medic, while still having options for getting inside where it might be safer.
Even though I forgot to update it when alpha six came out, I'm a bit disappointed no one has played this yet!
It really does play better than most other 5CPs, and it approaches the gameplay of Blands & Gaynary in tactical choices. It reminds me a lot of Granary around the last points but the middle is truly unique, and its paths are incredibly important because their use for back-caps is vital to a team.
The tactics used here are unlike any other 5CP out there, and just think what an advantage it would be to get in and learn this map before it becomes big. It's still in development and playing the map (and giving Shmitz or I the demos) helps both you and the mapper.
<333
The mapper is finalizing his other project (tc_meridian) atm so right now would be a good time to test this, so he has something to work on once he releases the final of that.
Love the map, love the design, and love the scale of CP3 particularly - looking forward to how it evolves. Couple things, though:
1. How attached are you to the cliffs?
- I instantly see a problem arising from the fact that you can fall off a cliff and die at CP3 and CP1/5 - there's already enough irritation from the pushback effect of the Force-a-Nature, and the fact that you can get shoved right off the cliff in this map is going to be a big negative I think. They're beautiful, and great fun in a pub-setting, but for a competitive 6v6 map this is definately a con - instead of having to actually KILL someone, the scout can just FaN them off the edge, which means you're rewarding those with less effort/skill.
2. Take out the cave altogether?
- The cave-route from Respawn (CP1) to CP3 is great for the race to 3, but has some definate setbacks and should probably be taken out all together. There's a great deal going on between CP2/4 & CP1/5, so you won't really miss it, and the added security for the defense is worth taking a little longer to get to CP3 in the opening moments. The problem is, once you lose CP3, that cave route instantly becomes bad thing because it's such an effective flanking route for enemy scouts, not to mention a spawn-camping demo. And offensively, it's not really a problem if you make a team work to get to CP3 by taking out their easy-access route.
These are just priliminary things I noticed, gonna try and pug over the next few days and get a better feel for the map - really, REALLY like the design though, and it's a very beautiful looking map. Thanks a bunch!
I'm sure first time players would get frustrated by the tunnel system, but it doesn't take too long to learn.
I wish I had more criticism, but I'll get back to you when (if) I ever PUG it.
P.S. - #8, try playing hydro in 6v6 with engie limit 0. Good times! The eternal stalemate conception of hydro is almost all based on pub play.
We played the map for 3 1/2 hours. The scoring system was completely fudged and forced you to actually win 3 rounds in a row to score a point. It was ridiculous.
Besides that, I honestly really like the layout, looks pretty fun.
hope youre referring to the idiot soldier/scout/demo/medic who stands near the edge and allows himself to get airblasted/fanned off
Honestly in practice you never get knocked off unless you stand near the edge or the enemies attempts to kill you that way. In any case, they're always better off just shooting you. You'd be surprised how well the open area around middle plays, it feels akin to the yard around Badlands 2nd in that it's perfectly well sized and has a lot of opportunity for all sorts of tactics. Even with the huge sightlines I've never seen a sniper absolutely dominate it, so I think it's just THAT well-designed.
Really, really, give this map a chance. Shmitz is a guy who would be willing to sacrifice the beauty of the cliffs if it were really an issue, but he is adamant that it's not and I tend to agree.
But as stated before, map looks pretty awesome sans fall off points, test running it now :]
-FoXy
Middle point should be much less prone to FaNs with that railing added, as mentioned above I helped Shmitz test it out and unless you're going for that health pack or in the air you're fine. Also, the tunnel leading to spawn has had a one way gate added to it. >_0
http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?..
EDIT: screen showing major changes at mid: http://www.horizonscape.com/shmitz/maps/t..
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