For the last two weeks i've been working on a new 5 cp map, stark. I'ts gone through lots of pub testing already and several 6v6 matches (one with myself in) and i think it's ready for some more public testing.
It's currently at _a6 but unlike my normal method of 100% dev textures until beta I'm taking more of a gradient approach, so theres already some basic thematic texturing, if that makes any difference to you :p
just took a quick look at it -- haven't playtested it, but from first notice, the skybox looks just a little funky... not sure the map should be so bright out in the open if the idea is for it to look like night time
The cap time on mid and 2/4 seem a bit fast at the moment. Maps that can be won easily off ninja backcaps get annoying. ie well/granary but the layout seems very well done.
The only issue I'm having is the bridge on 2/4 because it gets in the way of what seems to be the fastest way to mid as a demoman which is a sticky from the right spawn door to the right 2 entrance than a sticky from there up to the right/high path to mid.
Maybe you like it like that, idk. Just gets in the way of your jump. The pipes above the elevated walkways on mid also seem to inhibit jumping for soldiers and demomen. The two seem to be causing a height restriction.
High skyboxes are preferable so you can ge soldiers to jump across the catwalks at mid and maybe suicide your demoman. Getting knocked down during a jump by a piece of the map gets frustrating.
Not sure if you intended this or not, just some constructive feedback
The few things I might suggest is to make 3rd a littlebit open, I haven't played a game on it yet, but I'm guessing it would be a giant cluster of spam which may get annoying. Other than that, the layout is great
I've played this in the regular tf2maps 12v12 testing and I must say I really enjoy it.
The map is open enough to allow demos and soldiers to get to mid fast. Mid has a lot of different levels and makes for enjoyable battles. The 2nd point just seems plopped down in the middle of the room, if you know what I mean, but it still plays very well. I can see utility classes shining on last, for attacking or defending.
@ 8 the light is currently unexplained due to it's early status, don't worry I'll add plenty of obvious light sources to explain the bright environment.
I'm not sure if youre aware of the ability to get on top of the bridges on 2/4 with a single sticky jump. Gives you a pretty significant height advantage to spam from and you can walk around to dodge and such.
Also the map seems to be too narrow if that makes sense. You can position yourself in such a way that you can see all 3 entrances to 2/4 effectively and can probably sticky trap 2/3 of the entrances well enough to make it become a spam fight and force teams to pop ubers much sooner than theyd want to.
The same holds true for last. The two middle entrances are pretty much right next to eachother and one off to the side seems also very close to the middle one.
I think there needs to be a more definite "alternate" route into the last point. Granary has barriers on the doors in so you cant really see all too well, badlands has 4 entrances to last and yukon while it only has 3, its not too easy to control all 3 on defense.
Map just seems to need to be a little more wide with more defined "flanking" routes
The snowfall is also pretty awesome. Light enough to not really mess with your FPS but still enough to be noticed
I agree with the point about the entrances being too close together.
A good test I think would be "are you able as a soldier to stand in one place and hit all the entrances with a rocket". If so, something needs to change.
yeah, that narrowness is a consistent problem with many custom maps -- fastlane's last point comes to mind, as does freight's
basically it's what trainrider said: if you can watch and effectively defend all of the entrances from a single vantage point, it's not going to play well
though that rocket test isn't totally accurate, since you can hit all of granary's entrances into last with a rocket from the pipe, but the key part is that you can't effectively hold all of said entrances from up there
Yea, but on granary you can't hit the doors themselves, just the area in front of them. Of course, granary last point slows down a lot too because of it.
@daniel and train, you can effectively spam all 3 points rather easily as soldier holding point 2 and 1, you can also set up sticky traps on 2/3 of the doors on both points and watch all 3 entrances effectively as demo while spamming pipes on the one you didnt sticky up.
It just seems like a problem right now. I know its still early alpha stages but it will probably become an issue down the road as more people playtest it.
I do however like the way you set up the spawn points on last, adding somewhat of a walk from the supply cabinet to the point as well as the way mid is laid out. I don't want to sound like the map is at all bad, it just needs some minor adjustments.
Here's the changelog: * Reworked the bridge at 2nd/4th * Added an extension in between 1st and 2nd point * Removed the conveyors above centre bridges. * Adjusted capture timers. * Miscellaneous small tweaks. * Swapped to custom snow texture.
I'd appreciate any feedback you have, especially if you've actually played a 6v6 match on it :)
If I would be completely, brutally honest, the map design is awesome. But boy is it small. Infact if you just scaled up the whole map 50%, it would feel a lot better as it's really crammed right now. I think it would get really spammy in 6v6, and maybe even worse in pubs.
Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with it, but if you seriously want it to be a popular competitive map you need to think about the scale and maybe open it up a bit. I've yet to play a scrim on it though, gotta admit that :)
Theres no transition from the points i think is the problem.
granary you go from mid to yard to cp2/4 to the large path to last badlands you go mid to house to resup or yard to spire to house upstairs and healthpack to last
here you go mid to 2 to last with no real transition except the hallway door things
I agree with 28 and IMO its what makes yukon the most widely accepted new community made map
Too many map makers add in little nooks and segway rooms or areas that just make it harder to keep the solidarity of a push. Too many areas to check where a random scout might be hiding to back cap. Too many segway areas, specifically smaller "room" like segways just make a map slow and boring.
cp_stark (5 cp)
It's currently at _a6 but unlike my normal method of 100% dev textures until beta I'm taking more of a gradient approach, so theres already some basic thematic texturing, if that makes any difference to you :p
Without further ado:
Pictures (middle first, 2/4th second and final point is last)
http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/image..
http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/image..
http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/image..
Download:
http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?d..
It would be great if some of you could run some pugs on it :)
The only issue I'm having is the bridge on 2/4 because it gets in the way of what seems to be the fastest way to mid as a demoman which is a sticky from the right spawn door to the right 2 entrance than a sticky from there up to the right/high path to mid.
Maybe you like it like that, idk. Just gets in the way of your jump. The pipes above the elevated walkways on mid also seem to inhibit jumping for soldiers and demomen. The two seem to be causing a height restriction.
High skyboxes are preferable so you can ge soldiers to jump across the catwalks at mid and maybe suicide your demoman. Getting knocked down during a jump by a piece of the map gets frustrating.
Not sure if you intended this or not, just some constructive feedback
The few things I might suggest is to make 3rd a littlebit open, I haven't played a game on it yet, but I'm guessing it would be a giant cluster of spam which may get annoying. Other than that, the layout is great
The map is open enough to allow demos and soldiers to get to mid fast. Mid has a lot of different levels and makes for enjoyable battles. The 2nd point just seems plopped down in the middle of the room, if you know what I mean, but it still plays very well. I can see utility classes shining on last, for attacking or defending.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the feedback so far, go play it now =p
Also the map seems to be too narrow if that makes sense. You can position yourself in such a way that you can see all 3 entrances to 2/4 effectively and can probably sticky trap 2/3 of the entrances well enough to make it become a spam fight and force teams to pop ubers much sooner than theyd want to.
The same holds true for last. The two middle entrances are pretty much right next to eachother and one off to the side seems also very close to the middle one.
I think there needs to be a more definite "alternate" route into the last point. Granary has barriers on the doors in so you cant really see all too well, badlands has 4 entrances to last and yukon while it only has 3, its not too easy to control all 3 on defense.
Map just seems to need to be a little more wide with more defined "flanking" routes
The snowfall is also pretty awesome. Light enough to not really mess with your FPS but still enough to be noticed
A good test I think would be "are you able as a soldier to stand in one place and hit all the entrances with a rocket". If so, something needs to change.
basically it's what trainrider said: if you can watch and effectively defend all of the entrances from a single vantage point, it's not going to play well
though that rocket test isn't totally accurate, since you can hit all of granary's entrances into last with a rocket from the pipe, but the key part is that you can't effectively hold all of said entrances from up there
It just seems like a problem right now. I know its still early alpha stages but it will probably become an issue down the road as more people playtest it.
I do however like the way you set up the spawn points on last, adding somewhat of a walk from the supply cabinet to the point as well as the way mid is laid out. I don't want to sound like the map is at all bad, it just needs some minor adjustments.
http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?d..
Here's the changelog:
* Reworked the bridge at 2nd/4th
* Added an extension in between 1st and 2nd point
* Removed the conveyors above centre bridges.
* Adjusted capture timers.
* Miscellaneous small tweaks.
* Swapped to custom snow texture.
I'd appreciate any feedback you have, especially if you've actually played a 6v6 match on it :)
Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with it, but if you seriously want it to be a popular competitive map you need to think about the scale and maybe open it up a bit. I've yet to play a scrim on it though, gotta admit that :)
granary you go from mid to yard to cp2/4 to the large path to last
badlands you go mid to house to resup or yard to spire to house upstairs and healthpack to last
here you go mid to 2 to last with no real transition except the hallway door things
Stark is a lot of fun as is
Too many map makers add in little nooks and segway rooms or areas that just make it harder to keep the solidarity of a push. Too many areas to check where a random scout might be hiding to back cap. Too many segway areas, specifically smaller "room" like segways just make a map slow and boring.
other than that the map looks great :)
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