A linear five-CP push map set in the cascading valley between two hydroelectric dams. Both dams are owned by the parent company Alpha Electric, but through an odd series of transactions RED and BLU have come to each run one of the dams. In an attempt to sabotage their rivals, both teams are now attempting to access the valves controlling the spillways of one another's dams. These spillways provide vital egress for overflowing water should the dams burst and flood the teams' bases.
The first point is set in the floodgate control room which secretly houses an array of arms aimed at the opposing team. The second point is set in the cavern where the spillway passes through, controlling the vital override controls for either team's emergency pressure valve. The middle point is located in the basin where the water finally settles and the surrounding buildings control either team's dam.
Keep in mind this is still in alpha. I'm posting this here because I care about balance and am willing to make large, sweeping changes at this point in development. All visuals are incomplete, and nothing is displaced. Everything is subject to change, which is why I want you to playtest this now.
QUOTE:Keep in mind this is still in alpha. I'm posting this here because I care about balance and am willing to make large, sweeping changes at this point in development. All visuals are incomplete, and nothing is displaced. Everything is subject to change, which is why I want you to playtest this now.
Quoted for an awesome mapmaker attitude. I love the screens, I hope you get some constructive feedback.
The thing about freelance is that he has played comp. tf2 so he is basically the line between mapmakers and comp. players. So I think he understands the basics of comp. and seems to be a decent map maker.
Played the map before but only in pub 3v3 it seems like a decent map.
The map definitely looks unique from others I've seen. Overall from what I saw it looked amazing.
Yet I was somewhat confused by the whole bottom route. The route basically leads from last to mid and I don't see any use out of it except for easy backcapping. It's completely inconvenient for a team pushing back from last to 2nd to go the bottom route when it takes longer and is away from the fight. Yet that team would have to send both scouts (2 just in case one of them dies) down their when pushing back in order to prevent a backcap from players hanging out down there.
I also think that there are a lot of ways to mid. There are 4 different areas to enter mid. That's a lot of area to cover when facing the other team, and it's not even like the areas are close together, they're spread out to the point that it's impossible to cover them all.
And a problem, one that I've seen with A LOT of custom maps is all the areas you have to cover. You have many places that split into 2 and then rejoin later. All of this has to be accounted for when a team makes a push and it's definitely an inconvenience.
Overall the map looks great, and maybe you know something I don't know (esp about the bottom route) and can explain it to me. Thanks and good luck.
Thanks for the responses. I'm happy to hear what you really think either way, especially if it's something you feel can be fixed. :3
So, to address you Kermit here's how I intended the lower area to work out. To me it's considerably less versatile than the other two routes because of it's lack of the height advantage, but you can't exactly have a height advantage without a lower area. Instead, the yard/hole area is intended as an escape route and flanking path that is always useful for scouts or coordinated teams. It's there to prevent games from stalemating on the main pathways. Most obvious is the bonus of a medium health pack, but the main feature is really the hole. The hole allows teams assaulting 2nd to escape in the case of a failed push and allows smart soldiers/demos to enter the area unseen, jumping up and over the 2nd CP. Because it's such an open area, though, it really never makes any sense to camp out there, which is something I intend to at least alleviate a bit in the next version.
The middle is a case of trying to be different. My intention was to keep the point itself simple, just a CP on a hill that gives it a commanding view of its surroundings. The key to this is that by having 4 different entrances (two of which empty to the same spot, which is also the worst path), teamwork is emphasized by people capping the CP because they'll be forced to watch all 4 spots. In practice it has never been an issue because usually the chaos erupting on the CP itself pulls enough attention away from those entrances that it wouldn't really matter which entrance an enemy was coming from, because they'll just catch the enemy off guard anyway.
If you have any ideas on how to change middle, I'd be interested in hearing them.
The majority of the map is pretty defined, but I am planning to make a few changes in the next version (hopefully coming this weekend). These are just proposed, so far:
- Fix angles of the wide cave route between 2nd & 1st to make the sightlines more favorable to offense in either direction - Add flood-gates on the entryways to either side of the hole room to limit the spammability of that area from outside, thus making a safer place to chill out - Move the main spawn rooms into the warehouse building they now open onto, reducing walk time to point and removing useless space - Alter the angle at which the tunnel from the caves at middle to the CP approach the point to make it more beneficial to attackers trying to flank the CP (make the angle sharper) - Add small health pack at the bottom of the stairway room - Change medium health pack at the wide cave route from 1st to 2nd into a small - Stretch the large rock arch at middle (that separates yard from middle) back towards 2nd so that it blocks sight lines from middle to the upper levels of 2nd - BUG FIXES: clipping on hills at middle (displacements will be remade), respawn cabinets at main spawns clipping through walls, clipping on concrete ledge at middle, further lower hoodoo to allow easier scout jumping (again >_>)
Ah, ok. I still feel the bottom needs a change. Cuz as I said before, it forces people to go down there when re-attacking their second. From mid-last is too much IMO.
I took a look over at the map and here are some of my suggestions:
Last point seems like you put it in a small box without much room to fight for it, there is so many spots that the defending team can easily run away while the attacking team can't really catch up and kill them or at the least pop there uber also when fighting for the point there is many spots the defending team can spam from and not many points the attacking team can kill people from. Now honestly I would make the whole room within the last cap opened up or at least semi opened up but keep the spawn the same pretty much.
I have to agree on kermit with this one there are so many alternate paths that need to be taken out or at least make it so scouts can stay in a certain spot and stop the enemy scouts from reaching any of those paths.
Mav that whole run-on sentence you made has me incredibly confused. <333
From testing, last has played very differently than any other 5CP, but the experience has been very fun. Since it can only be accessed (by either team) from behind or above, it requires a lot of focus by the attackers to take the defenders out before moving in. The key is that once the attackers drop onto the point to block the capture, it's not easy for them to get back up (unless they RJ/sticky jump). This makes pushing out the best tactic for the defenders, while it forces the offensive team to stay on their toes... thus you rarely get dead periods where teams just build uber. That's the idea, and either way it's a creative last CP.
The paths may be interwoven more than blands/granary, but there's still 3 main entrances to each area. It's not like there's a bunch of random tunnels shooting off in useless directions, if you know the map the pathways will all be used.
Alpha 7 - 9/7 * Closed off path from the yard to the lower/hole area * Created a one-way door into the stairway room * Turned the wide cave path into a tunnel/building * Added a new staircase from the hole area to the new tunnel building * Raised height of cliffs around last * Added a laz0r on the final CP spawn buildings * Height of hoodoos at middle lowered * Additional rock added to middle * New sign at middle * Extended rock arch into the yard to block sightlines * Added new rock arch high above the yard * Many new details added * Retextured all rock walls to align with the new higher cliffs around last * Moved some health around, making the medium health in the tunnel a small and adding a small into the stairway room * Added a small ammo to corner of the 2nd floor by the 2nd CP
Known Issues: * Texture for one sign on the BLU side hole area is missing * Clipping on the hills at middle is atrocious, will be fixed in a7a coming soon * Power cord for the laser totally goes through the roof of the spawns
Hey guys, just checking in to see if anyone has had the time to test Spillway yet. I haven't had much time to dedicate to actively promoting it, but I still REALLY, REALLY need 6v6 testing. While I normally get a bit of testing from various friends, so far a7 has only had one 6v6 test, and I'd very much like to make some large changes and get a8 out this weekend, I have a ton of free time for once.
That said, if you can ever get a playtest going, contact me on steam or here before or after so I can spectate or get the sourcetv demo. I'd really appreciate any and all opinions on the map!
If any of you know any gather or pug groups that are willing to test customs, send their contact info my way. <3
Testing bump! I know quite a few of you have played 'er since a7 came out a couple weeks ago, and I'm looking for any and all concerns before I finalize a8, which will be coming out this weekend. Final changes, to be made:
- Simplify staircase from hole area to the tunnel by having it empty directly onto the 2nd CP - Change the 2nd forward respawns @ the middle CP to create more cover in that corner of the space, prevent spam over the rocks - Initial (main) Spawns moved forward & up into the glass window room of the warehouse, all of the useless space to the left removed - Cave ceiling added to 2nd, with many new details like skylights & increased lighting on the lower route to make it more attractive - Detail greatly improved, including a lot of new greenery, new overlays, and more decorative ground water - Bug & clipping fixes
- Simplified staircase from hole area to the tunnel by having it empty directly onto the 2nd CP - Changed the 2nd forward respawns @ the middle CP to create more cover in that corner of the space, prevent spam over the rocks; added billboards to middle - Initial (main) Spawns moved forward & up into the glass window room of the warehouse, all of the useless space to the left removed - Cave ceiling added to 2nd, with many new details like skylights & increased lighting on the lower route to make it more attractive - Detail greatly improved, including a lot of new greenery, new overlays, and more decorative ground water - Changes to health & ammo: sm->med ammo in yard, med->sm in hole, med->small at last, moved health/ammo by last spawns, sm->med at long tunnel - Bug & clipping fixes
- Raised the floor of the lower ground @ yard & under the hole, making the height advantage of defenders as well as the fall damage less severe. - Reworked the flow around last, including moving the bridge to empty directly onto the CP, and streamlining the main path + improving the angles to favor attackers in that area. - Angled the front portion of the roof @ last, plus added a new tower to that building to break up sightlines on the ramp path to the CP. - Changed the initial spawn rooms to be located upstairs in the rear of the warehouse, with doors left & right. - Increased the thickness of ceiling @ 2nd/4th in order to decrease the perceived size of the area. - Raise the light levels @ 2nd/4th. - Moved the sheet metal @ 2nd/4th to cover the sightline from tunnel to the other side of the CP, effectively making that approach a flank for the defense, decreasing spam, & adding cover on the CP. - Additional detail everywhere, including an example of the above-cliff detailing @ last.
So... I know this hasn't been updated recently, but that's because I'm making some rather HUGE changes. With the help of a fellow comp player/mapper (Sawks) we've been redesigning a large portion of the map to be cleaner and have better flow.
Some of the changes I can talk about include: 1: rotating last 90 degrees and flipping it, to balance both paths left and right and to shorten the walk time of the tunnel path. 2: On middle adding an entirely new flank route and lowering the walls to reduce the scale (skybox will still be VERY high though)
Those are the two major changes, but hopefully a10 will be perfect!
I don't like the side path to the right from 1st to that lower area, it just needs a redesign the stairs are very slim as well as there is no way an attacker could get up those with any class watching it.
I am excited for the changes on last and mid however.
Srsly at the end of each round the laser must be fired at the dam and this will happen:
That area is basically gone in a10. There's going to be some connection from hole to 2nd but the path can basically go anywhere now and can be much wider and whatnot. >_0
Oh, and yeah no that's at the top of my priorities atm :3
So I figured I'd update you all on what's happening.
I've enlisted the help of Sawks (of TF2F) to help out with redesigning the map. My main PC has been dead for two weeks (until today) but finally I'm back up and ready to map. He pretty much told me straight up that last needed a redesign, which is in retrospect very true. I'm keeping some of the old elements, but what's changed is that last is now rotated and flipped and has no building. It will look like this:
Additionally, since the Sawks is rebuilding the entire map from scratch to allow easier displacing and detailing, we've went ahead and redesigned middle. Here's what it looks like now (yes, in devs):
a10 should arrive this week sometime, and I don't intend to even texture it. I just need gameplay feedback. The old style of all high cliffs and whatnot is being redesigned entirely, which will happen for beta, and so I'd like to just get through this (or these) final alpha(s) quickly.
A linear five-CP push map set in the cascading valley between two hydroelectric dams... and it's come a LONG way since a2 was released a couple months ago!
With the help of my new co-author Sawks, in this version I've totally overhauled the map. While the layout is similar all around, it's been rebuilt from scratch with new, cleaner brushwork and a handful of MAJOR changes to the layout intended to perfect the flow. The middle CP has been redesigned, the 2nd is brand new, and the last looks nothing like it used to!
I hope you all find these changes for the better. Do be forewarned, though, that since this overhaul I've also put the map back into dev textures. Not only was it something I should have started with, but it's going to help with displacing and detailing later.
I owe many thanks to Sawks, Nineaxis, and all my mapping brain trust for their help!
-Last needs to be longer it is very boring and close to the choke, make some interesting heights on it and make more room. A redesign I think might be in order. - Mid widen the rock don't make one path you idot. - 2nd has height which I like but there doesn't seem to be much of a fight that is going on.
Mavrix, dont be an asshat, give positive feedback. You try to read all these comments, re edit spillway and redo every single aspect of it and have the players enjoy the look of it, instead of critisizing the the small things
bleh he's just trying to get the topic rolling ---for last: -the underpath seems like an amazing place to kritz from. don't move it further way -from last, I can see moving the right entrance to the RIGHT giving a little more play room over there, OR moving the left entrance BACK OR LEFT. keeping one close seems like a cool option -it has interesting heights, but yeah when you move it to beta just make the ground a little wavey like most good maps. ---for mid: - the rock is fine - the are enough paths - don't lower the walls anymore, if anything make them a little higher throughout a lot of the map I have no idea what he is talking about with not much a fight there is a pretty tight choke between 2 and 1, but after giving up 2 most teams instinctively move back to 1, and the attacking team still has more directions to spam from so it probably isn't a problem. It might alter gameplay a little bit, but that's awesome
To be fair Mavrix has known this map since a1, which wasn't even publically released, but yeah no STFU Mav >:3
I have a good sense of what's wrong right now, what would help most are ideas to integrate the least used paths more. I posted a huge post about that on TF2maps, and if you're interested and willing to read a lot, try that.
@ Mav The rock is a prop. You can't resize props. I can certainly find a larger rock to put there (A lovely bloke named Rexy is making custom rocks) or I can just make another hoodoo with a flat top. Last is just too simple to be this small, I totally 100% agree that it needs to be larger and farther away from 2nd. I'll do that next version, and yes, I will leave the ramp where it is. That was always planned. :D At 2nd, the issue is that the defense has to go off to the left to get on the CP. I'm adding a ramp directly to the CP and a slope along the other ledge to fix it.
@ Equals Great feedback! As far as "wavey", that's called displacing. It's a basic map technique, and obviously all the cliffs will be displaced, but most mappers wait until beta to displace, after the layout is finalized, because it's so much work to do. Mav suggests the rock to be larger so that it can block the sightlines all the way across the point, which I agree with. I just need to clean up middle and add some cover, that will definitely be in a11.
Thanks guys. For all of you who are playing this to get ready for TWL, please send me your demos! If you have any comments you can say them in game in the demo. Be brutally honest, you're honestly not going to say anything I haven't already heard.
If any of you played this in TWL this past Monday or will be playing it this coming Monday, could you post here to let me know? I would love to get demos of your matches and if possible chat with your teams about how it played.
I felt like the respawn times were too long and they really punish the team that lost mid. Mid is a little too sniper friendly and it feels like there are too many exits to mid. It was hard to call locations because of the lack of locational features, but that's just because the map is in alpha.
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cp_spillway
download: http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?d..
http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?..
A linear five-CP push map set in the cascading valley between two hydroelectric dams. Both dams are owned by the parent company Alpha Electric, but through an odd series of transactions RED and BLU have come to each run one of the dams. In an attempt to sabotage their rivals, both teams are now attempting to access the valves controlling the spillways of one another's dams. These spillways provide vital egress for overflowing water should the dams burst and flood the teams' bases.
The first point is set in the floodgate control room which secretly houses an array of arms aimed at the opposing team. The second point is set in the cavern where the spillway passes through, controlling the vital override controls for either team's emergency pressure valve. The middle point is located in the basin where the water finally settles and the surrounding buildings control either team's dam.
Keep in mind this is still in alpha. I'm posting this here because I care about balance and am willing to make large, sweeping changes at this point in development. All visuals are incomplete, and nothing is displaced. Everything is subject to change, which is why I want you to playtest this now.
tf2maps topic, for further balance discussion: http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?..
thanks!
FoXy
Quoted for an awesome mapmaker attitude. I love the screens, I hope you get some constructive feedback.
looks pretty interesting
Played the map before but only in pub 3v3 it seems like a decent map.
But it's good to see someone who plays it actually pick up mapping for a change instead of crying.
Yet I was somewhat confused by the whole bottom route. The route basically leads from last to mid and I don't see any use out of it except for easy backcapping. It's completely inconvenient for a team pushing back from last to 2nd to go the bottom route when it takes longer and is away from the fight. Yet that team would have to send both scouts (2 just in case one of them dies) down their when pushing back in order to prevent a backcap from players hanging out down there.
I also think that there are a lot of ways to mid. There are 4 different areas to enter mid. That's a lot of area to cover when facing the other team, and it's not even like the areas are close together, they're spread out to the point that it's impossible to cover them all.
And a problem, one that I've seen with A LOT of custom maps is all the areas you have to cover. You have many places that split into 2 and then rejoin later. All of this has to be accounted for when a team makes a push and it's definitely an inconvenience.
Overall the map looks great, and maybe you know something I don't know (esp about the bottom route) and can explain it to me. Thanks and good luck.
So, to address you Kermit here's how I intended the lower area to work out. To me it's considerably less versatile than the other two routes because of it's lack of the height advantage, but you can't exactly have a height advantage without a lower area. Instead, the yard/hole area is intended as an escape route and flanking path that is always useful for scouts or coordinated teams. It's there to prevent games from stalemating on the main pathways. Most obvious is the bonus of a medium health pack, but the main feature is really the hole. The hole allows teams assaulting 2nd to escape in the case of a failed push and allows smart soldiers/demos to enter the area unseen, jumping up and over the 2nd CP. Because it's such an open area, though, it really never makes any sense to camp out there, which is something I intend to at least alleviate a bit in the next version.
The middle is a case of trying to be different. My intention was to keep the point itself simple, just a CP on a hill that gives it a commanding view of its surroundings. The key to this is that by having 4 different entrances (two of which empty to the same spot, which is also the worst path), teamwork is emphasized by people capping the CP because they'll be forced to watch all 4 spots. In practice it has never been an issue because usually the chaos erupting on the CP itself pulls enough attention away from those entrances that it wouldn't really matter which entrance an enemy was coming from, because they'll just catch the enemy off guard anyway.
If you have any ideas on how to change middle, I'd be interested in hearing them.
The majority of the map is pretty defined, but I am planning to make a few changes in the next version (hopefully coming this weekend). These are just proposed, so far:
- Fix angles of the wide cave route between 2nd & 1st to make the sightlines more favorable to offense in either direction
- Add flood-gates on the entryways to either side of the hole room to limit the spammability of that area from outside, thus making a safer place to chill out
- Move the main spawn rooms into the warehouse building they now open onto, reducing walk time to point and removing useless space
- Alter the angle at which the tunnel from the caves at middle to the CP approach the point to make it more beneficial to attackers trying to flank the CP (make the angle sharper)
- Add small health pack at the bottom of the stairway room
- Change medium health pack at the wide cave route from 1st to 2nd into a small
- Stretch the large rock arch at middle (that separates yard from middle) back towards 2nd so that it blocks sight lines from middle to the upper levels of 2nd
- BUG FIXES: clipping on hills at middle (displacements will be remade), respawn cabinets at main spawns clipping through walls, clipping on concrete ledge at middle, further lower hoodoo to allow easier scout jumping (again >_>)
Peace
-FoXy
Last point seems like you put it in a small box without much room to fight for it, there is so many spots that the defending team can easily run away while the attacking team can't really catch up and kill them or at the least pop there uber also when fighting for the point there is many spots the defending team can spam from and not many points the attacking team can kill people from. Now honestly I would make the whole room within the last cap opened up or at least semi opened up but keep the spawn the same pretty much.
I have to agree on kermit with this one there are so many alternate paths that need to be taken out or at least make it so scouts can stay in a certain spot and stop the enemy scouts from reaching any of those paths.
From testing, last has played very differently than any other 5CP, but the experience has been very fun. Since it can only be accessed (by either team) from behind or above, it requires a lot of focus by the attackers to take the defenders out before moving in. The key is that once the attackers drop onto the point to block the capture, it's not easy for them to get back up (unless they RJ/sticky jump). This makes pushing out the best tactic for the defenders, while it forces the offensive team to stay on their toes... thus you rarely get dead periods where teams just build uber. That's the idea, and either way it's a creative last CP.
The paths may be interwoven more than blands/granary, but there's still 3 main entrances to each area. It's not like there's a bunch of random tunnels shooting off in useless directions, if you know the map the pathways will all be used.
DL: http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?d..
Screens: http://img6.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=cpspi..
TF2Maps: http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?..
Alpha 7 - 9/7
* Closed off path from the yard to the lower/hole area
* Created a one-way door into the stairway room
* Turned the wide cave path into a tunnel/building
* Added a new staircase from the hole area to the new tunnel building
* Raised height of cliffs around last
* Added a laz0r on the final CP spawn buildings
* Height of hoodoos at middle lowered
* Additional rock added to middle
* New sign at middle
* Extended rock arch into the yard to block sightlines
* Added new rock arch high above the yard
* Many new details added
* Retextured all rock walls to align with the new higher cliffs around last
* Moved some health around, making the medium health in the tunnel a small and adding a small into the stairway room
* Added a small ammo to corner of the 2nd floor by the 2nd CP
Known Issues:
* Texture for one sign on the BLU side hole area is missing
* Clipping on the hills at middle is atrocious, will be fixed in a7a coming soon
* Power cord for the laser totally goes through the roof of the spawns
That said, if you can ever get a playtest going, contact me on steam or here before or after so I can spectate or get the sourcetv demo. I'd really appreciate any and all opinions on the map!
If any of you know any gather or pug groups that are willing to test customs, send their contact info my way. <3
-FoXy
Though I didn't 6v6 test it I just no clipped through the map looking for obvious flaws.
- Simplify staircase from hole area to the tunnel by having it empty directly onto the 2nd CP
- Change the 2nd forward respawns @ the middle CP to create more cover in that corner of the space, prevent spam over the rocks
- Initial (main) Spawns moved forward & up into the glass window room of the warehouse, all of the useless space to the left removed
- Cave ceiling added to 2nd, with many new details like skylights & increased lighting on the lower route to make it more attractive
- Detail greatly improved, including a lot of new greenery, new overlays, and more decorative ground water
- Bug & clipping fixes
http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?d..
- Simplified staircase from hole area to the tunnel by having it empty directly onto the 2nd CP
- Changed the 2nd forward respawns @ the middle CP to create more cover in that corner of the space, prevent spam over the rocks; added billboards to middle
- Initial (main) Spawns moved forward & up into the glass window room of the warehouse, all of the useless space to the left removed
- Cave ceiling added to 2nd, with many new details like skylights & increased lighting on the lower route to make it more attractive
- Detail greatly improved, including a lot of new greenery, new overlays, and more decorative ground water
- Changes to health & ammo: sm->med ammo in yard, med->sm in hole, med->small at last, moved health/ammo by last spawns, sm->med at long tunnel
- Bug & clipping fixes
http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?d..
- Raised the floor of the lower ground @ yard & under the hole, making the height advantage of defenders as well as the fall damage less severe.
- Reworked the flow around last, including moving the bridge to empty directly onto the CP, and streamlining the main path + improving the angles to favor attackers in that area.
- Angled the front portion of the roof @ last, plus added a new tower to that building to break up sightlines on the ramp path to the CP.
- Changed the initial spawn rooms to be located upstairs in the rear of the warehouse, with doors left & right.
- Increased the thickness of ceiling @ 2nd/4th in order to decrease the perceived size of the area.
- Raise the light levels @ 2nd/4th.
- Moved the sheet metal @ 2nd/4th to cover the sightline from tunnel to the other side of the CP, effectively making that approach a flank for the defense, decreasing spam, & adding cover on the CP.
- Additional detail everywhere, including an example of the above-cliff detailing @ last.
Some of the changes I can talk about include:
1: rotating last 90 degrees and flipping it, to balance both paths left and right and to shorten the walk time of the tunnel path.
2: On middle adding an entirely new flank route and lowering the walls to reduce the scale (skybox will still be VERY high though)
Those are the two major changes, but hopefully a10 will be perfect!
I am excited for the changes on last and mid however.
Srsly at the end of each round the laser must be fired at the dam and this will happen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEdM6Ys6spA
(your getting right to that aren't you)
Oh, and yeah no that's at the top of my priorities atm :3
I've enlisted the help of Sawks (of TF2F) to help out with redesigning the map. My main PC has been dead for two weeks (until today) but finally I'm back up and ready to map. He pretty much told me straight up that last needed a redesign, which is in retrospect very true. I'm keeping some of the old elements, but what's changed is that last is now rotated and flipped and has no building. It will look like this:
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1930120/DaPlan..
Additionally, since the Sawks is rebuilding the entire map from scratch to allow easier displacing and detailing, we've went ahead and redesigned middle. Here's what it looks like now (yes, in devs):
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/4250/spi..
a10 should arrive this week sometime, and I don't intend to even texture it. I just need gameplay feedback. The old style of all high cliffs and whatnot is being redesigned entirely, which will happen for beta, and so I'd like to just get through this (or these) final alpha(s) quickly.
-FoX
So a10 is still in the works, don't worry. It's about... 60% done right now. I'm just taking my sweet time.
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6812/spill..
DOWNLOAD - http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?d..
A linear five-CP push map set in the cascading valley between two hydroelectric dams... and it's come a LONG way since a2 was released a couple months ago!
With the help of my new co-author Sawks, in this version I've totally overhauled the map. While the layout is similar all around, it's been rebuilt from scratch with new, cleaner brushwork and a handful of MAJOR changes to the layout intended to perfect the flow. The middle CP has been redesigned, the 2nd is brand new, and the last looks nothing like it used to!
I hope you all find these changes for the better. Do be forewarned, though, that since this overhaul I've also put the map back into dev textures. Not only was it something I should have started with, but it's going to help with displacing and detailing later.
I owe many thanks to Sawks, Nineaxis, and all my mapping brain trust for their help!
I'm looking for all feedback, both competitive and casual, so please check out my topic: http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?..
-FoX
-Last needs to be longer it is very boring and close to the choke, make some interesting heights on it and make more room. A redesign I think might be in order.
- Mid widen the rock don't make one path you idot.
- 2nd has height which I like but there doesn't seem to be much of a fight that is going on.
---for last:
-the underpath seems like an amazing place to kritz from. don't move it further way
-from last, I can see moving the right entrance to the RIGHT giving a little more play room over there, OR moving the left entrance BACK OR LEFT. keeping one close seems like a cool option
-it has interesting heights, but yeah when you move it to beta just make the ground a little wavey like most good maps.
---for mid:
- the rock is fine
- the are enough paths
- don't lower the walls anymore, if anything make them a little higher throughout a lot of the map
I have no idea what he is talking about with not much a fight
there is a pretty tight choke between 2 and 1, but after giving up 2 most teams instinctively move back to 1, and the attacking team still has more directions to spam from so it probably isn't a problem. It might alter gameplay a little bit, but that's awesome
I have a good sense of what's wrong right now, what would help most are ideas to integrate the least used paths more. I posted a huge post about that on TF2maps, and if you're interested and willing to read a lot, try that.
@ Mav
The rock is a prop. You can't resize props. I can certainly find a larger rock to put there (A lovely bloke named Rexy is making custom rocks) or I can just make another hoodoo with a flat top. Last is just too simple to be this small, I totally 100% agree that it needs to be larger and farther away from 2nd. I'll do that next version, and yes, I will leave the ramp where it is. That was always planned. :D At 2nd, the issue is that the defense has to go off to the left to get on the CP. I'm adding a ramp directly to the CP and a slope along the other ledge to fix it.
@ Equals
Great feedback! As far as "wavey", that's called displacing. It's a basic map technique, and obviously all the cliffs will be displaced, but most mappers wait until beta to displace, after the layout is finalized, because it's so much work to do. Mav suggests the rock to be larger so that it can block the sightlines all the way across the point, which I agree with. I just need to clean up middle and add some cover, that will definitely be in a11.
Thanks guys. For all of you who are playing this to get ready for TWL, please send me your demos! If you have any comments you can say them in game in the demo. Be brutally honest, you're honestly not going to say anything I haven't already heard.
-FoX
Reading tf2maps forum posts now.
-FoX
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