I am trying to start a new PUG channel because #tf2.pug.na was not intended to be a mainstream channel.
This new channel is aimed to be more welcoming to the entry-level than the one we have right now.
We will probably use the new in game voice chat Valve just implemented in their latest release. It works well and it's going to be more beginner friendly. I plan to restrict the classes, it means no spy, no sniper, no engineer, no pyro and probably just 1 heavy. Also, there won't be a "limit" like we have in pugna. So it's first come first serve. But there will be 2 medic slots and the game won't start as long as they are missing. It will be a random draft, and first come first serve in the server for who have which class.
I will probably add a warning system this week as well. But for now let's debug what we have and see how it goes after.
In all seriousness this is probably a good idea, and although my gut instinct is that the class restrictions are bad, it's most likely for the best. Although you want players to use these classes when appropriate, you want them even more to not gimmick and learn to play the core classes.
Hopefully you're keeping #tf2.pug.na and not making any major changes to it and hopefully this new channel will make the percentage of mid/high players higher (last night we played a few games with carnage, tech, enigma, relic and myself).
tech isn't good, he is just a huge faggot that makes fun of lower skilled players and thinks he is so good. All he does is bitch during PUGS, he is one of those players that hurts the TF2 Community and people complain on why this game is dead. It's due to faggots like TecHNaSTy. He sits in the TF2.pug.na channel all day acting tough and calling people by there first name as if he knows them in real life. Talking about beer, sex and drugs..say that in the real world buddy you'd probably get your ass kicked "Matt".
#8, I can make the class restriction more flexible. Like, the best setup would be 1 off class per team as long as it's not the demo. I am pretty sure I can code a SM script to handle that. And I even think that it would be handy in pugna. Since both channels will share the same servers / bot / database. I understand though why there's people that are laughing at this but sometimes you feel that a feature like this would be necessary. I mean, let's try this out and if it doesn't work we will remove it.
And yeah, that's pretty much what I envisioned when I created pugna. Less games but decent medics that would pick the best players available to makes great PUGs. But it just turned out to be the alternative to Gather.
Yeah, you can't make it too restricting. Because a lot of these new players aren't interested in comp largely because they feel no other classes are used. By limiting it to only 4 of the classes, you're verifying what some people think. Good luck with this new channel though :)
Sounds like a good plan. When tf2.pug.na first came out I found that lower skilled players played gathers while mid-high players played pug.na. That was until pug.na kinda killed gather :|
As long as you can get the word out where lower skilled players should go and keep pugs as active as they are in tf2.pug.na then we'll have a nice separation of skill for good pugging.
#15, I think we will be able to control the channels a bit with the stats we have. So a user that have good stats in #tf2.pug will be able to start playing in #tf2.pug.na. While keeping the channels public so everybody can see what happens and who's saying what.
- First, I agree that this channel is needed to cater to the new players, but for someone like myself who has been using pug.na for a while now, there is no way in hell I'm going to add up in the new channel unless the other one doesn't have any games going. First come first serve based on server connect, random draft, etc are EXACTLY the types of frustrating establishments that led to the death of gather and the flourishing of pug.na, and exactly the reason why I personally stayed the fuck away from gather.
- Second, what #11 said about Technasty is completely true. Its sad that hes an op in the channel, and I can honestly say I don't enjoy games with him in them at ALL. Its at the point where most of the time if I can help it, if I see him added up I just don't play because I know he'll just end up going huntsman, and spouting off whatever elitist bullshit he always does in mumble. I know there are people that have issues with some other op's in the channel (personally I have no issues with Away/Deception and I think he's actually pretty cool from the games I've played with him - no bullshit, no retarded offclassing, etc) but the complaints against technasty are completely warranted and valid. He is by far the most harmful type of player to have in any pug community. I'd go on, but #11 covered it pretty damn well.
We just tested out the first PUG. It was OK. It helped me to get a feeling about what is needed and not. I don't think you guys have anything to worry about any harm this channel could make to #pugna. This channel has the potential to make more intense games than a pub but not that much. Maybe I'm wrong though, maybe the beginners will have a blast all together. But I'm not sure on this.
Anyway, this whole setup is just there to offer a PUG experience, not more. Because even though #pugna is a fun place to play, I think it does hurt the TF2 community by weeding out the newcomers.
So, if you guys want to help out, that would be by idling. Because when the channel will be ready it has to have some people in it so the beginners that will come in it will feel that's alive. :)
there are so many haters on this thread and on the internet in general that wouldn't get the vision anyway you explained it to them. just do what you think is best cinq and it'll probably be more than any of them will ever do for the community.
lol and 11 nailed it except I don't know technasty well enough to say if that diretly applies to him, but the jist of it explains alot of the man-children/ internet tough guys that have admin in these PUG channels.
I'm not going to try and bash on any individuals, but it doesn't make much sense to me that the ops in all these channels are just those who are well known in the community, instead of those who actually USE the channels, and are active in them. 90% of the ops in these channels just idle and occasionally kick somebody, or talk some s[b]h[/b]it. There are plenty of people out there who are extremely active in the pugs and would do a good job of moderating them.
I think it would be best for the pugs to try to do their best at replicating the current competition rules/regulations. So the class limits should mirror ESEA/CEVO/TWL/What have you. Yes, its annoying when you have people being useless in pugs, however, what about the people that wanna try and snipe in competition. Should they not be allowed to practice that in pugs? As long as there are still other necessary classes, of course.
Who hasn't smoked pot? Seriously if you haven't smoked pot you shouldn't even be saying shlt to other people. Cinq man nice job you doing us work other wouldn't give a shlt about.
#38 neither. 6v6 is basically the only format that is actually played in leagues right now. If you're going to try a format other than 6v6, choose some new "up and coming" formats like the one the Euros are using for their KotH cup or an arena setup, rather than a format that is obsolete and unused by now like 8v8 or highlander. Also consider that 8v8 and 9v9 games are harder to get started and generally more boring and spammy, whereas 4v4 games (what ETF2L uses for KotH) are easier to get started and involve less spam generally.
Honestly I don't see any reason to try experimenting with other formats, at least until there are two active channels. (Right now #tf2.pug seems to be pretty much unused.)
This is a great idea that I think will help the community grow a great deal. Let's be honest, the picking system in PUG.NA makes it so that top tier players get chosen first, which they should be, but it then forces newcomers out, when cevo-p players, or even mid level players, add late.
It sucks for these new guys because they wait around so long, and don't get a game in. A lot of them are pugging because they don't have the resources or connections to get a team together, and for them pugging is their only avenue for competitive play.
If there are a couple experienced players in the tf2.pug channel that can help out all the new guys that are a little more inexperienced with competitive play, there could be an influx of new players and new teams that would have otherwise never been able to get the experience to play. This is good for everyone, good players and bad.
The in-game chat feature is fine, ESEA does it for their pugs. The only thing that bugs me is the class restriction, because sniper/pyro can be used effectively situationally, just not for the entire game.
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#tf2.pug, a new channel
This new channel is aimed to be more welcoming to the entry-level than the one we have right now.
We will probably use the new in game voice chat Valve just implemented in their latest release. It works well and it's going to be more beginner friendly. I plan to restrict the classes, it means no spy, no sniper, no engineer, no pyro and probably just 1 heavy. Also, there won't be a "limit" like we have in pugna. So it's first come first serve. But there will be 2 medic slots and the game won't start as long as they are missing. It will be a random draft, and first come first serve in the server for who have which class.
I will probably add a warning system this week as well. But for now let's debug what we have and see how it goes after.
wtffffff
Added server ConVar "tf_teamtalk" to allow alive/dead teammates to talk with each other during a match (default is 0)
I lol'd
In all seriousness this is probably a good idea, and although my gut instinct is that the class restrictions are bad, it's most likely for the best. Although you want players to use these classes when appropriate, you want them even more to not gimmick and learn to play the core classes.
Hopefully you're keeping #tf2.pug.na and not making any major changes to it and hopefully this new channel will make the percentage of mid/high players higher (last night we played a few games with carnage, tech, enigma, relic and myself).
And cinq thanks for the work you've done :D
tech isn't good, he is just a huge faggot that makes fun of lower skilled players and thinks he is so good. All he does is bitch during PUGS, he is one of those players that hurts the TF2 Community and people complain on why this game is dead. It's due to faggots like TecHNaSTy. He sits in the TF2.pug.na channel all day acting tough and calling people by there first name as if he knows them in real life. Talking about beer, sex and drugs..say that in the real world buddy you'd probably get your ass kicked "Matt".
And yeah, that's pretty much what I envisioned when I created pugna. Less games but decent medics that would pick the best players available to makes great PUGs. But it just turned out to be the alternative to Gather.
Oh, and yes I will keep #pug.na alive.
As long as you can get the word out where lower skilled players should go and keep pugs as active as they are in tf2.pug.na then we'll have a nice separation of skill for good pugging.
- First, I agree that this channel is needed to cater to the new players, but for someone like myself who has been using pug.na for a while now, there is no way in hell I'm going to add up in the new channel unless the other one doesn't have any games going. First come first serve based on server connect, random draft, etc are EXACTLY the types of frustrating establishments that led to the death of gather and the flourishing of pug.na, and exactly the reason why I personally stayed the fuck away from gather.
- Second, what #11 said about Technasty is completely true. Its sad that hes an op in the channel, and I can honestly say I don't enjoy games with him in them at ALL. Its at the point where most of the time if I can help it, if I see him added up I just don't play because I know he'll just end up going huntsman, and spouting off whatever elitist bullshit he always does in mumble. I know there are people that have issues with some other op's in the channel (personally I have no issues with Away/Deception and I think he's actually pretty cool from the games I've played with him - no bullshit, no retarded offclassing, etc) but the complaints against technasty are completely warranted and valid. He is by far the most harmful type of player to have in any pug community. I'd go on, but #11 covered it pretty damn well.
damn thats fast
#24, not everyone has the time to join low/low- teams like you
Anyway, this whole setup is just there to offer a PUG experience, not more. Because even though #pugna is a fun place to play, I think it does hurt the TF2 community by weeding out the newcomers.
So, if you guys want to help out, that would be by idling. Because when the channel will be ready it has to have some people in it so the beginners that will come in it will feel that's alive. :)
lol and 11 nailed it except I don't know technasty well enough to say if that diretly applies to him, but the jist of it explains alot of the man-children/ internet tough guys that have admin in these PUG channels.
i imagine there were a lot of em there
that's like saying people do drugs because they drink
Honestly I don't see any reason to try experimenting with other formats, at least until there are two active channels. (Right now #tf2.pug seems to be pretty much unused.)
It sucks for these new guys because they wait around so long, and don't get a game in. A lot of them are pugging because they don't have the resources or connections to get a team together, and for them pugging is their only avenue for competitive play.
If there are a couple experienced players in the tf2.pug channel that can help out all the new guys that are a little more inexperienced with competitive play, there could be an influx of new players and new teams that would have otherwise never been able to get the experience to play. This is good for everyone, good players and bad.
The in-game chat feature is fine, ESEA does it for their pugs. The only thing that bugs me is the class restriction, because sniper/pyro can be used effectively situationally, just not for the entire game.
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