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Team Fortress 2: 20ID's Bryan "kb" Curtin Interviewed

By: Joe Szymkowicz - Published January 28, 2008 at 3:00 AM EST - Writer Archive
GotFrag's Joe Szymkowicz talks with Bryan "kb" Curtin of 20ID about their Roughneck Challenge victory, the Team Fortress 2 community and what he thinks needs to be done to keep the game competitive.


I recently had a chance to talk with Bryan "kb" Curtin after their first-place finish in the TGL Roughneck Challenge and ask him about the current CEVO Professional season and some various other issues on the minds of many in the community right now.

Though Team Fortress 2 is a relatively new game, how do you think the competitive community is growing?

The competitive community isn't growing in the eyes of the teams that play 6v6. It actually has diminished quite a bit since the first CEVO tournament. I think pangu talked about it in his interview that there isn't a definite rule set on how the game should be played. That meaning should it be 6v6 or 8v8? It all comes down to personal preference. I have played in a few 8v8 matches and it has been fun, but those leagues don't even have a class restriction set and is even more of a spam fest. So it really comes down to all the leagues coming together and making one unified rule set. I really wish the 8v8 teams would play in the 6v6 leagues. The amount of teams in CEVO would double if not triple if some of the 8v8 teams would come over.

Most gamers now want to attend lans and prove there skills in a real life setting and remove all the doubts or suspicions of other players about their true abilities. I just would find it extremely hard for a venue to hold 8v8 tournaments. I know BF was a big 8v8 game and from my memory I don't remember hearing about any big lans that were a 8v8 setting. Plus how hard would it be to get 8 people to attend a lan? I mean its hard enough to get 5 or 6 to attend.

At a high competitive level the game isn't growing, which is really sad to see. This game has so much potential to be a very popular competitive game, but Valve didn't really add any new features after the beta and I think really made some people lose interest. I mean they didn't even release any new maps or unlock any cool features or achievements or anything for that matter.

What do you think the game needs, if anything, to become even stronger competitively?

First off, there needs to be a standard rule set that everyone could agree on or come close to agreeing on. I hear a lot of people talking about a pro-mod, which would be really nice. Then comes the question of crits being turned on or off? You are going to get all kinds of different views on this situation. I really can't give you a definite answer. Also, I believe if the sniper was as useful as it used to be the game would be much better off.

I think the biggest problem is people arguing between 8v8 or 6v6. If the leagues ran a consistent setup the game would grow or at least the teams playing 8v8 or 6v6 would finally all have one place to play. It comes down to the rules set forth by the leagues on what type of setup 6v6 or 8v8 and what type of class restrictions. If there was more of a consistent rule set among the leagues, I believe we would still have a lot of the teams that have left for COD4 or went back to CS:S.

As for the class restrictions TGL and CEVO, from my knowledge are the only leagues placing a class restriction. I had signed up my demoman team (#class4) in STA and we run 6 demoman and 2 medics. Now you tell me whether or not that is ridiculous? I mean the team we played last week quit half ways through the match because they couldn't even get out of their spawn on dustbowl. I think 8 people is a little too much for the maps that Valve had created and even most custom maps. I truly believe this game was meant to be played 6v6, more than that it becomes a huge spam fest with people dying all over the place and makes the game a lot easier for the team defending.

Even though it's still early in the season, what teams are looking like they could win the Grand Finals?

First off, we have to give it up to The Doctors as they are the reigning CEVO Champs and are the champs until someone knocks them off. They still have the same core set of players that won it for them the first time around and with the addition of pangu, it makes them even stronger. It's really tough not to consider them the top team in TF2 with their lineup.

Another team is The Experiment with their 3rd place finish in the CEVO tournament and runner-up in the TGL Roughneck Tournament. However, they did lose pangu so that is tough as he is a good player and is going to be interesting to see who's going to fill his shoes. But with the addition of oPlaiD it makes them even more dangerous. Expect them to be placing in the money if not taking it all for Season 1.

I can't leave out my own team [20ID], but I am not going into detail why because it will only be biased. However, we still have the same lineup that won the TGL Roughneck tourney for us and we still feel we have something to prove.

Look out for some upsets though. There are going to be quite a few this season........
Continued (1/2) »
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User Comments

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we need LANS!
Part-time GotFrag Writer - Fulltime Dr Pepper Enthusiast
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I do agree, the only reason CS1.6 is dieing is also for the same reason. Once LG, TGC, GLP, and PNY's disappeared, so did much of the texas scene. So opposite of this should also be true. If we bring numerous LANs to a certain game, wouldn't it grow? THINK PEOPLE, THINK!
#esportsea
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4 demo 2 medic ftw lol
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20idstickam4lyfe
#EG
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I'm going to agree with doing it mur
:{D
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c u in cod4 MY OLD PAL LACK
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lans alone won't save TF2 there must be changes before then
8
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#7 Thats easy to say when you don't really give some input on how that will be done.
Part-time GotFrag Writer - Fulltime Dr Pepper Enthusiast
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I think I did in the interview...atleast I hope I did

This comment was edited at 01/28/2008 3:36 PM
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There's been a long debate about the 8v6 issue on http://www.thecatacombs.net forums with pretty interesting arguments going both ways. Here's the best pro-8 post:

QUOTE:
Originally Posted by [NIL8]Squirrel
I've played qtf, TFC, CS and CSS and now TF2. Each game is different and has their own style. CS games are technical and precise aiming. CS also has a pretty slow gameplay due to the "die once per round" aspect.

The TF games that I have been playing for over the last 10 years have always been at the very least an 8v8 and even going up to 12v12 for 1 or 2 very large maps. TF games tend to be less technical and a lot more is left to chance and team execution, rather then precision and individual skill. TF is meant to be spammy and somewhat chaotic. TF games normally have 8v8 with nades friendly fire and insanely short respawn times. Played that way for over 10 years and some of the most fun gameplay you could ever imagine.

TF2 is not CS. TF2 is a TF game. Look at the design of the game. The maps, the classes, the objectives. They are all meant for 8 to 10 people on each team. They are open because they are meant to be spammy and meant to have a bunch of frags. They also have very long respawn times so each team has a chance to push forward. At 6v6 a few crit shots and random kills which are common in TF2 can quickly decide the fate of a match with little or no teamwork involved. At higher numbers on the field the game will require better teamwork and execution, just like all the other TF games.

People from CS are obsessed with individual glory and the chance of going PRO. This is what the gaming community has evolved to. People want to be recognized and if they are in a smaller group they just may "make it". This isn't CS. Stop trying justify making this game 6v6 because it will be easier to get scrims and lans put together. Adding 2 more people to a starting lineup is not going to kill you. If you do not have a dedicated and skilled enough team to field 8 then you need to go out and find better people.

Keep TF2 pure. Do not cater to the CS community and ruin the potential that this game has so they can go out and try to prove their le3t skillz as individuals. Let this game play how it was meant and keep it team based. After all it is TEAM Fortress, not a small squad based precision fps known as CS.


http://forums.thecatacombs.net/showthread..

One possible solution thrown out was the idea of 7v7, as a compromise between the two schools of thought.
GotFrag TF2 Head
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This game isn't like other TF games...look at the maps valve released and that TGL and CEVO use...It would be insane to have more than 6v6 if you want your spammy fun go pub some where

This comment was edited at 01/28/2008 4:09 PM
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The 8v8 versus 6v6 debate should have be laid to rest forever ago. Two successful tournaments have finished on 6v6 without anyone saying, "damn, wish I had two more people". Anything above 6v6, and even 6v6 itself, is severely spammy.

Leagues that play without class restrictions are the bastions of retards. As proven by c4. We did a LAN (LAN War 40) and did a similar configuration.

At this point I don't think TF2 has a long future. Valve have done their utmost to make it unfun for competitive players and the community squandered the chance to get it right (as the EUers did). NA has almost entirely moved to CoD4.
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Nice read on a great guy.

Hope some changes are made for the better in TF2, whether its competitive formats or game updates. GL!
LoL DuDe LoL
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I wonder why the US teams are still playing 8v8 and with Crits. 6v6 and NoCrit are the established standard in the EU for over two months now for good reasons.
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The leagues that actually have coverage and prizes play 6v6
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Sliderrr:
It takes NA at least a year or more to catch up to EU and by then the game is long dead. Standard shit... seen it so many times now.
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#16 very true. I am an early cs player and a current css player and can say that when i first purchased tf2 me and my friends were amazed at how fun it was. After a while though, we were wanting an established none bs competitive platform and couldn't find one in time to satisfy the need and have thus moved on to cod4 or stayed with css as many have said. Valve itself or probably more reasonably, a modder, could make this a different story very quickly. Lets hope for the best.

This comment was edited at 01/29/2008 4:15 PM
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I'm not much of a tf2 player, but from reading this wouldn't 7vs7 be logical since no one can decide on 6vs6 or 8vs8?
#subliminal
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lack is good at a game? just kidding lack. <3
#empyrean #supermen #ctfpug #lostprophets
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#19, odd since EU, CEVO, and TGL all did fine at 6v6. The 8v8 and 7v7 people are insane purist who probably shouldn't be in competitive gaming in the first place.
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#21 good call
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Yay, someone who isn't a complete jerk in e-sports!

Good read.
...the only Finnish fanboy in the States
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re: team size

Other games should have no effect on team size since TF2 is significantly different from all other Fortress games and not even close to CS/CoD.

The only thing that should matter is an even balance between offense and defense on whatever maps are played. If defense is too easy, then you end up with double holds, low scoring games, overly long games, fluky wins. If offense is too easy, then the game is over too quickly and too few actual battles take place.

In general, more players = easier defense, because there is limited space (map size/chokepoints) and there aren't any movement tricks (bunnyhop accel/conc jump/gren jump) that allow you to bypass defenders easily. Also, as teams get better at the maps, they usually improve more on the defensive side of things.

From a competitive team's point of view, 6v6 is the sweet spot on the current map rotation. Add another player or 2 and you'd see good teams struggling to cap on each other on 2fort, gravelpit and dustbowl. Defense of CP2/4 on well would be alot easier with 2 extra players. Granary would be doable 8v8 but IMO the map is somewhat broken anyway.
[20ID]ginc - poop from a butt

We need a pro-mod. If anyone made that, this game could be truly awesome imo.
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not possible without an SDK
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Dance Brigade plays 6v6 and 8v8. Don't hate on 8v8, we just prefer playing both formats :) . Unfortunately people believe what they read and they believe these unknown opinionated folks on here bashing 8v8. We have proven that no class restrictions hasn't hurt us in 8v8 as we overcome it anyway. But please, prove me wrong, you know where to find us.
Merlino
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LOL #27
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QUOTE:
hehe, impressive performance against SIT.

you dont know what you are talking about #20

This comment was edited at 02/09/2008 3:53 PM

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